Does proof destroy faith or belief?

[Willum]

There is this false assertion in religion that:

Proof destroys faith.

But this is wrong:
Proof cements faith, what it destroys is a false beliefs.

Look at proof in science, so many of the things we take for granted; gravity, quantum, electronics, are all considered unproven, yet we have so much faith in them that modern society relies on them.

But is there any reason to believe that proof destroys faith? Or is it just a bit of jargon we've heard since childhood, so that we no longer challenge it?
Or is it simply that proof destroys false beliefs? and for fundamental reasons?

[JJ50]

There is this false assertion in religion that:

Proof destroys faith.

But this is wrong:
Proof cements faith, what it destroys is a false beliefs.

Look at proof in science, so many of the things we take for granted; gravity, quantum, electronics, are all considered unproven, yet we have so much faith in them that modern society relies on them.

But is there any reason to believe that proof destroys faith? Or is it just a bit of jargon we've heard since childhood, so that we no longer challenge it?
Or is it simply that proof destroys false beliefs? and for fundamental reasons?

I need proof that a belief system has veracity, I think blind faith can lead you up the garden path and cause no end of problems.

I suspect many Christians of the fundamentalist/Biblical literalist persuasion look upon their faith as a fire insurance policy, which will protect them from the mythical flames of hell.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by Willum]

I couldn't have put it better myself, TRUE faith is based on solid evidence. It is not gullible and is not blind. Everyone has faith in something and/or someone, its how we function; the wise man choses carefully who and what he will put his faith in.


JW



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[Tcg]

I couldn't have put it better myself, TRUE faith is based on solid evidence.

If there is solid evidence, there is no need for faith, TRUE or otherwise.

It is not gullible and is not blind.

Faith is gullibility based on blindness.

Everyone has faith in somehthing and/or someone, itself how we function; the wise man choses carefully who and what he will put his faith in.

YOU have complete and total faith in your religious cult. This fact doesn't prove anything about anyone else in spite of your false assumption that it does.

[Bust Nak]

YOU have complete and total faith in your religious cult. This fact doesn't prove anything about anyone else in spite of your false assumption that it does.

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[OnceConvinced]

Proof destroys faith.

Absolute poppycock. Just because one believes something to be true doesn't mean that faith is not required. For instance I know for a fact my partner does exist, but I still have to employ faith when it comes to trusting her. I have faith that my partner will not cheat on me and that she will continue to love me. I have to have faith that I can rely on her. It's this faith in ones partner that establishes the strength of the relationship. It's what makes it work. Imagine if you had no faith in your partner. The relationship would deteriorate quickly.

If I have proof that God exists, then I have something solid to build my faith on. I still need to employ faith when it comes to his promises and assurances. I still need to employ faith that he is not going to let me down and that he is not malevolent. I still have to have faith that he is the one true God and that all others are beneath him. That is where faith becomes important. Imagine if you don't have faith in God. The relationship between you and him would deteriorate quickly.

Take a look at the 12 disciples. They had absolute proof of Jesus, but what did Jesus continually judge them for? That they lacked faith. So clearly Jesus expected them to continue to have faith even after the proof had been given. In fact he expected GREATER faith. They needed to CONTINUE to exhibit faith, particularly in the power of God.

The bible teaches that miracles are done especially to create proof of God and that Jesus was from god. If that was the case then even Jesus himself was trying to provide proof, yet he still considered faith important. Just look at the story of Doubting Thomas. Thomas wanted proof so Jesus gave it to him. Did that destroy his faith? No because Thomas went on and did great things.

Proof cements faith, what it destroys is a false beliefs.

Agreed. Part of the reason I lost my faith is because what I saw was proof began to crumble beneath me. I began to see that the foundation of my faith was not as strong as what I thought. I was mistaken about the proof!

Look at proof in science, so many of the things we take for granted; gravity, quantum, electronics, are all considered unproven, yet we have so much faith in them that modern society relies on them.

Indeed. We have proof that rain provides plants with much needed life and that plants need this rain, however we still have to have faith that the rain will continue to keep coming and the plants will continue to thrive.

But is there any reason to believe that proof destroys faith?

The is simply just an excuse for a non-existent god. A cop out to avoid providing any evidence that God exists.

[OnceConvinced]

I need proof that a belief system has veracity, I think blind faith can lead you up the garden path and cause no end of problems.

Exactly! Faith can lead you into all sorts of whacky beliefs. Faith without proof is what leads people into false religions, cults and other whacky beliefs in things. Just look at all the people who believe in Bigfoot, alien abductions, demons, angels etc etc.

Proof is the fool proof way to have people avoid believing in and worshipping false gods. It worked for the worshippers of Baal in the bible!

[OnceConvinced]

I couldn't have put it better myself, TRUE faith is based on solid evidence.

If there is solid evidence, there is no need for faith, TRUE or otherwise.

You would be right in saying that with proof of God there is no need for faith when it comes to believing that a god exists. However faith isn't just about believing in the existence of something. It's about putting trust in that something. Even with proof there you still have to employ that type of faith.

It is not gullible and is not blind.

Faith is gullibility based on blindness.

It's gullibility if there is no good evidence. For instance if I just employ faith in a God based on flimsy evidence (eg people's testimonies or ancient religious literature), then that would make me gullible. I could be believing in some really ridiculous god like Thor.

Everyone has faith in somehthing and/or someone, itself how we function; the wise man choses carefully who and what he will put his faith in.

YOU have complete and total faith in your religious cult. This fact doesn't prove anything about anyone else in spite of your false assumption that it does.

Like any Christian they come to their faith based on belief already. Somewhere along the line they have seen what they believe is proof for the existence of their god. They then put their faith in that god. I know of no Christian who ever became a Christian without believing they had solid evidence first.

The act of repentance is based on faith. But the belief comes first.

[agnosticatheist]

By proof, do you mean 100% certainty? If so, then yes, because with 100% certainty, there is no need for faith...

[JJ50]

[Replying to post 8 by OnceConvinced]

It is the Biblical god who should be repenting if it exists!