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happy forever
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:57 am  If you read the Quran, why didn't you believe in it? Reply with quote

The Quran is the book of Allah for all humanity, it's Ayats are mercy and guidance.
If you really read it, how didn't you believe in it?
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 41: Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:14 pm
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Re: If you read the Quran, why didn't you believe in it?

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A Troubled Man wrote:

jpalmaer wrote:


Well...to me and most other faiths seem to be a certain part of the reality.
You can observer them everywhere...so by definition they are a part of the reality. By this not mentioning that all or any particular faiths are purely true and good ones. Some or portions of them could even or possibly be more or less evil and false.


Yes, reality shows us there are folks who have faith in invisible and undetectable entities that have never been shown to exist and be part of reality. That is true.

That is also part of the problem.


Seem like we've some different definitions of the reality. For me everything, wheter true or false, wheter exist or not exists, good or evil, is a part of the reality. And exists wheter you and I or others want it, as actual or potential entities. And portions - but not all - of all this seem possibly reasonable, approved, effecient, and contributes to life and happiness. An pragmatik approach to all this is applied by many folks, but of course may not all or always.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 42: Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:18 pm
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jpalmaer wrote:


Seem like we've some different definitions of the reality.


I have no personal definitions of reality, I use the accepted one; a real thing or fact.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 43: Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:44 am
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happy forever wrote:

The Quran is the book of Allah for all humanity, it's Ayats are mercy and guidance.
If you really read it, how didn't you believe in it?

It is a good question. I believe it is the most systematic ,reasonable, pristine and secure Recitation ever given the human beings for guidance in ethical, moral and spiritual realms. But no compulsion to believe it forcibly. Right, please?
Regards

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 44: Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:41 am
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Re: If you read the Quran, why didn't you believe in it?

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McCulloch wrote:

happy forever wrote:

The Quran is the book of Allah for all humanity, it's Ayats are mercy and guidance.
If you really read it, how didn't you believe in it?


How do you know that the Quran is from Allah? I've read an English translation and I was not impressed or awed in any way.


Quran gives reasons and signs for all the claims/commandments mentioned in it:

[15:10] Verily, We Ourself have sent down this Exhortation, and most surely We will be its Guardian.

https://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=15

Quran gives the claim that it is from One-True-God and gives the sign that he will be its guardian.

And we see that its original text has been guarded by Him and it is pristine and secure and has remained as such.

Regards

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 45: Wed May 16, 2018 6:32 am
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If you read the Quran, why didn't you believe in it?

Because for a book that was supposed to be the word of god it is really badly written, even compared to such amateur potboilers as the Bible or the Book of Mormon. It really needs some serious editorial care.

Study

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 46: Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:42 am
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If you read the Quran, why didn't you believe in it?

Because like Judaism and Christianity, the Quran promotes slavery and has no respect for women as equals.

Slavery quote's, some showing no respect for women in the Quran:

Quote:

Sura 4:24–25
24. And all married women except those whom your right hand possess this is Allah’s ordinance to you; and lawful for you are all women besides those, provided that you seek them with your property taking them in marriage not committing fornication.… 25. And whoever among you has not within his power ampleness of means to marry free believing women, then he may marry of those whom your right hands possess from among your believing maidens and Allah knows best your faith; you are [sprung] the one from the other; so marry them with the permission of their masters and give them their dowries justly….


Quote:
Sura 24:31
And say to the believing woman that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers.… or their brothers, or their brother’s sons or their sister’s sons, or their women, or those whom their right hand possess, or the male servants not having need [of women]….

Quote:
Sura 33:55
There is no blame on them in respect of their fathers nor their brothers, nor their brother’s sons, nor their sister’s sons, nor their own women, nor of what their right hand possess; and be careful of your duty to Allah; surely Allah is a witness of all things.


Quote:
Sura 33:50
O prophet surely we have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those whom your right hand possesses out of those Allah has given to you as prisoners of war….

Quote:

Sura 4:92
And it does not behove a believer to kill a believer except by mistake, and whoever kills a believer by mistake, he should free a believing slave….


Quote:
Sura 24:58
O you who believe let those whom your right hand possess and those of you who have not attained to puberty ask permission of you three times; before the morning prayer….


Quote:
Sura 23:6
Except before their mates or those whom their right hand possess, for they surely are not blameable.

Quote:

Sura 24:32
And marry those among you who are single and those who are fit among your male slaves and your female slaves; if they are needy, Allah will make them free from want out of his grace; and Allah is ample-giving, knowing.


Source: Lifting the Spiritual Self Esteem of the LGBT Community

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 47: Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:13 am
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If you read the Quran, why didn't you believe in it?

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Slavery has been with us since the dawn of time and the fact that Islam came into being, could not make this practice magically disappear. Centuries after Islam, western civilisations showed us the true evil nature of slavery as can be attested by the hundreds of thousands who perished on the Atlantic Ocean during transport to the Americas.
Before the time of the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh), slavery existed in many forms, namely: warfare, debt (unable to pay back), kidnapping, raids, poverty and need. The main source of slaves in Europe and America (later) was kidnapping.
It is worth pointing out that you do not find any text in the Quran which enjoins taking others as slaves, whereas there are dozens of texts in the Quran which call for the freeing of slaves and the proper handling of slaves. The Prophet Muhammed openly encouraged the freeing of slaves as a means towards salvation or as a price for a religious transgression. Islam changed the way in which slavery was dealt with. It created many ways of liberating slaves, blocked many ways of enslaving people and established guidelines which blocked these means.
Today we have a new name for slavery called human trafficking which is rampant across the globe without discrimination

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 48: Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:17 am
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Re: If you read the Quran, why didn't you believe in it?

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[Replying to post 6 by McCulloch]

I think that Happy Forever, is doing a disservice to the Muslims. Maybe English is not his first language. Of course, any language can be translated, but translation coupled with interpretation could lead to the watering down of the essence of any message, script or book. The Quran has been translated into hundreds of languages by great scholars who have studied both the original classical Arabic as well as the translated language and have therefore taken the pains to remain authentic. This however, does not guarantee that the translation is fool-proof which I think Happy Forever is getting at. Understanding the original language most certainly has its advantages and minimizes the wandering from the essence. The Bible and the New Testament has certainly had their fair share of tweaking.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 49: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:53 am
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Re: If you read the Quran, why didn't you believe in it?

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happy forever wrote:

The Quran is the book of Allah for all humanity, it's Ayats are mercy and guidance.
If you really read it, how didn't you believe in it?



I don't believe it was dictated in any way by God; it is too parochial, too interested in specific concerns of local people, to the extent that heaven has fresh water and some nice fruit. It is also a document hostile to those who don't accept Muhammad and the punishments proposed paint Allah as sadistic. Of course this may well be so, but one would prefer to take this as Arab imagination rather than heavenly reality.

The removal of Christ's birth to some place in the desert under a palm tree is amusing and obviously designed to cater for a particular audience. It is easy to find passages that advocate - or seem to advocate - violence, so it is no wonder that when we hear God is great, some atrocity is nearby. I particularly dislike the surah that tells a man to beat his disobedient wives. It is preposterous that a being who created the universe would concern himself with such silly advice. So no, I don't believe the Koran.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 50: Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:01 am
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More than Tolerance wrote:


Of course, any language can be translated, but translation coupled with interpretation could lead to the watering down of the essence of any message, script or book.


We manage to get Dostoyevsky's meaning perfectly well when we read Crime and Punishment in translation; Raskolnikov remains Raskolnikov.

One would be entitled to suppose if one accepted God was the Koranic author that he guided the fingers of his translators. Why not? If his aim was to proclaim Allah to the Earth then he would do himself less than justice if he allowed some poor translation.
Obviously the Arabic version is so beautiful that the reader is magically transformed into a Muslim from the first sentence but those of us denied the pleasure of reading Arabic must watch from the side lines without savouring the joy of conversion.

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