This Generation Will Not Pass Away:

[Overcomer]

Jesus talks about the destruction of the temple and signs of the end times in Matt. 24:1-35:

1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 Do you see all these things? he asked. Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. Tell us, they said, when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?

4 Jesus answered: Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, I am the Messiah, and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15 So when you see standing in the holy place the abomination that causes desolation,[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel"let the reader understand" 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now"and never to be equaled again.

22 If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, Look, here is the Messiah! or, There he is! do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

26 So if anyone tells you, There he is, out in the wilderness, do not go out; or, Here he is, in the inner rooms, do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29 Immediately after the distress of those days


the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.

30 Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32 Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Verse 34 has been the subject of many a debate. My questions are as follows:

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

[polonius]

(copy) What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"? (/copy)

RESPONSE:

Merriam Webster Definition of this : the person, thing, or idea that is present or near in place, time, or thought or that has just been mentioned

Merriam Webster definition of generation : a group of individuals born and living contemporaneously.

[Checkpoint]

(copy) What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"? (/copy)

RESPONSE:

Merriam Webster Definition of this : the person, thing, or idea that is present or near in place, time, or thought or that has just been mentioned

Merriam Webster definition of generation : a group of individuals born and living contemporaneously.

Thankyou.

Your post illustrates what I wrote:

Refusal to accept that "generation" has more than one meaning ensures the confusion continues.

Two points.

1) Merriam Webster gives more than one meaning of "generation"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/generation

2) Dictionary definitions are in English and refer to English usage.

Bible writers, and what Jesus said, are in other languages, which have their own definitions and usages.

Failure to take these into account means we are bound to miss the mark.

[polonius]

RESPONSE:

Merriam Webster Definition of this : the person, thing, or idea that is present or near in place, time, or thought or that has just been mentioned

Merriam Webster definition of generation : a group of individuals born and living contemporaneously.

Thankyou.

Your post illustrates what I wrote:

Refusal to accept that "generation" has more than one meaning ensures the confusion continues.

RESPONSE: But here we are talking about one generation ie "this generation." Why do you keep avoiding the obvious fact?

Two points.

1) Merriam Webster gives more than one meaning of "generation"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/generation

2) Dictionary definitions are in English and refer to English usage.

Bible writers, and what Jesus said, are in other languages, which have their own definitions and usages.

Failure to take these into account means we are bound to miss the mark.[/quote]

RESPONSE: "bound to"??? If I say one and one is true in Hebrew and one and one is two in English, is one of these statements "bound to" be in error?

[polonius]

RESPONSE:

Merriam Webster Definition of this : the person, thing, or idea that is present or near in place, time, or thought or that has just been mentioned

Merriam Webster definition of generation : a group of individuals born and living contemporaneously.

Thankyou.

Your post illustrates what I wrote:

Refusal to accept that "generation" has more than one meaning ensures the confusion continues.

RESPONSE: But here we are talking about one generation ie "this generation." Why do you keep avoiding the obvious fact?

Two points.

1) Merriam Webster gives more than one meaning of "generation"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/generation

2) Dictionary definitions are in English and refer to English usage.

Bible writers, and what Jesus said, are in other languages, which have their own definitions and usages.

Failure to take these into account means we are bound to miss the mark.[/quote]

RESPONSE: "bound to"??? If I say one and one is true in Hebrew and one and one is two in English, if one statement "bound to" be in error?

CONCLUSION: Jesus was in error. The "second coming" did not occur during his "generation" or any generation since!

[Elijah John]

RESPONSE:

Merriam Webster Definition of this : the person, thing, or idea that is present or near in place, time, or thought or that has just been mentioned

Merriam Webster definition of generation : a group of individuals born and living contemporaneously.

Thankyou.

Your post illustrates what I wrote:

Refusal to accept that "generation" has more than one meaning ensures the confusion continues.

RESPONSE: But here we are talking about one generation ie "this generation." Why do you keep avoiding the obvious fact?

Two points.

1) Merriam Webster gives more than one meaning of "generation"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/generation

2) Dictionary definitions are in English and refer to English usage.

Bible writers, and what Jesus said, are in other languages, which have their own definitions and usages.

Failure to take these into account means we are bound to miss the mark.

RESPONSE: "bound to"??? If I say one and one is true in Hebrew and one and one is two in English, if one statement "bound to" be in error?

CONCLUSION: Jesus was in error. The "second coming" did not occur during his "generation" or any generation since!

To amplify and further support to polonius points.

Also, If Jesus were referring to some future generation, wouldn't proper usage have dictated that he say that generation instead of "this" generation?

And if he were speaking of some prolonged generation, it's been some two thousand years and counting. Isn't that stretching the meaning of the term "generation" well beyond the breaking point?

And the entire context of the New Testament is one of immanent expectation of Jesus return. The parables, Paul, the author of Hebrews, etc, all indicated and talked as though Jesus was to return when they were all still alive, writer and immediate audience alike. Examples have been provided many times here on these boards. "In these last days, he has spoken to us through his Son" for one.

All this is evidence that Jesus, and those authors, and the entire New Testament was just plain wrong in this regard.

And since they were wrong, how could Jesus possibly be "God in the flesh"?

[tam]

Peace to you EJ,

RESPONSE:

Merriam Webster Definition of this : the person, thing, or idea that is present or near in place, time, or thought or that has just been mentioned

Merriam Webster definition of generation : a group of individuals born and living contemporaneously.

Thankyou.

Your post illustrates what I wrote:

Refusal to accept that "generation" has more than one meaning ensures the confusion continues.

RESPONSE: But here we are talking about one generation ie "this generation." Why do you keep avoiding the obvious fact?

Two points.

1) Merriam Webster gives more than one meaning of "generation"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/generation

2) Dictionary definitions are in English and refer to English usage.

Bible writers, and what Jesus said, are in other languages, which have their own definitions and usages.

Failure to take these into account means we are bound to miss the mark.

RESPONSE: "bound to"??? If I say one and one is true in Hebrew and one and one is two in English, if one statement "bound to" be in error?

CONCLUSION: Jesus was in error. The "second coming" did not occur during his "generation" or any generation since!

To amplify and further support to polonius points.

Also, If Jesus were referring to some future generation, wouldn't proper usage have dictated that he say that generation instead of "this" generation?

No, because the people He was speaking to were also part of 'this' generation.

We (who belong to Christ, who are adopted as sons) are the same generation... all with God as our Father... all being brothers and sisters. It does not matter 'when' on the timeline we are born; we are 'this' generation that will not pass away before all these things happen. 'This' generation will still be here (still exist) by the time all these things happen; 'it' will not have passed away.

And if he were speaking of some prolonged generation, it's been some two thousand years and counting. Isn't that stretching the meaning of the term "generation" well beyond the breaking point?

Not when referring to an eternal Father, no.

And the entire context of the New Testament is one of immanent expectation of Jesus return. The parables, Paul, the author of Hebrews, etc, all indicated and talked as though Jesus was to return when they were all still alive, writer and immediate audience alike. Examples have been provided many times here on these boards. "In these last days, he has spoken to us through his Son" for one.

There may be one or two verses to indicate some may have thought He was returning in their lifetime. Since it was not impossible, I do not know why they would not have at least hoped for this. But that does not mean Christ told them He was returning in their lifetime.

I do not see how any of them predicted that He would return in their lifetime, but even if they had, it would only indicate that they were wrong, not that He was wrong.

All this is evidence that Jesus, and those authors, and the entire New Testament was just plain wrong in this regard.

There is no evidence that Jaheshua was wrong in this or any regard. There is evidence of misapplication of His words. Because we KNOW that the word 'genea/generation' has many meanings. Why choose the meaning that would indicate Christ - the Truth, the One sent and chosen by God - spoke falsely? As if we would know better than the One God chose and told us to listen to?


It is not even an obscure meaning:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/le ... 1074&t=KJV



I - fathered, birth, nativity

II - that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family

...... A - the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy

.......B - metaph. a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character,
............ i - esp. in a bad sense, a perverse nation

III - the whole multitude of men living at the same time

IV - an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied be each successive generation), a space of 30 - 33 years


There are six meanings there, other than the one that you are using (and that one is listed down at the bottom of the list). But by all means, check out the link for yourselves.


May anyone who wishes them be given ears to hear as the Spirit and the Bride say to you, "Come!" May anyone who thirsts, "Come! Take the free gift of the water of life!"


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 242 by tam]

It's not just the "this generation" phrase, Tammy. It's also his "some standing here" statement. A prediction which still has not come true. Take these two predictions and combine them with the written expectation of the others, (who were supposed to have been infallible Bible writers) and the evidence is indeed overwhelming. Jesus was just plain wrong as were Paul, "John" and the unknown author of Hebrews.

[polonius]

Tam posted

We (who belong to Christ, who are adopted as sons) are the same generation... all with God as our Father... all being brothers and sisters. It does not matter 'when' on the timeline we are born; we are 'this' generation that will not pass away before all these things happen. 'This' generation will still be here (still exist) by the time all these things happen; 'it' will not have passed away.

RESPONSE: Lets get a little reality oriented and less imaginative here. Of course it matters "when". St. Peter and I are not of the "same generation" whatever you try to argue.

It's amazing what some try to argue to avoid the obvious plain meaning of words if they don't want to accept the meaning.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 239 by polonius]

RESPONSE: But here we are talking about one generation ie "this generation." Why do you keep avoiding the obvious fact?

I do not avoid that fact.

Instead, I point out just what and who "this'generation" is, according to the description given by Jesus.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 240 by polonius]

CONCLUSION: Jesus was in error. The "second coming" did not occur during his "generation" or any generation since!

Jesus was not in error in his use of the term "this generation".

Rather, skeptics, and most Christians, are in error in their assumptions he was talking about a physical generation born of human fathers.

Not, therefore, 'his "generation" or any generation since'.

Any generation is that which is fathered or procreated, and such are the progeny or children.

As Jesus said,

"What is born of the Spirit is spirit,
and what is born of the flesh is flesh".