Problems with the Problem of Pain

[liamconnor]

The supposal of an omnipotent, omniscient and good God is often attacked on the grounds of the presence of pain in the world. Such attacks paint the world as experienced so terrible, that one wonders why there are not more suicides: like 99% of humanity!

Yet every talk I have ever had with any atheist has revealed a relish in living.

It is as if there is just enough pain the world to reject theism; but not enough to go out and truly have a good time with friends over a pint of beer.

How do we reconcile the painting of reality made by atheists (who use the argument of the problem of evil: not all do) and the lives they live? Is this philosophical hypocrisy? Is it hypocritical to denounce a good god on the grounds that people are starving in Somalia while typing on a laptop and eating a burger from Wendy's?

(I suppose I should add that any atheist who adds his bit obviously acknowledges his or her access to a computer! and the internet! to the health and education that enables him or her to engage in this debate!)

[PinSeeker]

So what happened to your brother then? Did he go to hell?

I don't know. Depends on whether God changed his heart or not. I hope so, but I don't know.

As for me and my "fully grown-ness," I have a long, long way to go. As do we all.

Your arguments simply aren't making any sense PinSeeker.

To you. That, I do know. They don't make sense... to you. But that really doesn't mean a whole lot, does it?

[PinSeeker]

Letting them get into trouble is the most effective parenting we can do because we can't zap perfect adults into existence, the same does not apply with God.

"Effective parenting" applies just as much to God as to us. More so, really; the Creator/created relationship is infinitely more profound. I most wholeheartedly agree with you that the journey is just as important as the destination. More so, really, because then the destination is appreciated all the more. That's how God made it to be.

[William]

[Replying to post 1 by liamconnor]

As I understand it, we are all aspects of GOD so if there is indeed a general rejection of the notion of helping others who are less fortunately placed in this world, the idea that "GOD ignores it so why shouldn't we do the same?" seems reasonable.

And - if we are indeed aspects of GOD - then yes, we are 'GOD ignoring the problem which we can do something about.'

The convenience of separating GOD from 'the problem of evil' has its drawbacks when coupled with the idea that GOD is indeed, separate from humans specifically, and nature in general.

Historical evidence shows us plainly enough that this type of thinking is detrimental to humanity specifically, and nature in general.

♦ The Problem Of Evil

[Divine Insight]

Your arguments simply aren't making any sense PinSeeker.

To you. That, I do know. They don't make sense... to you. But that really doesn't mean a whole lot, does it?

In a debate with me it means you are losing the debate. And that's all that would be relevant.

Uncompelling apologetics is failed apologetics.

[Tcg]

Your arguments simply aren't making any sense PinSeeker.

To you. That, I do know. They don't make sense... to you. But that really doesn't mean a whole lot, does it?

In a debate with me it means you are losing the debate. And that's all that would be relevant.

Uncompelling apologetics is failed apologetics.

This clearly reveals the effectiveness of Christian apologetics. It convinces only those who are already convinced.

Imagine the skills required if your job was to convince construction company owners who are convinced that Ford trucks are the best vehicles for construction use that Ford trucks are the best vehicles for construction use.

Apologist: "Ford trucks are the best vehicles for construction use."

Owners: "Yes they are!"

Apologist: "Where's my check?"

[1213]

…The problem is people believing that such an all-loving God would must fulfill a person's expectations of love. God should feed all the poor, God should heal all the sick, God should regrow limbs, God should pay for all my bills, etc. ..

I think you have good points. I hope this doesn’t distract too much, but it is interesting, what would happen, if God would fulfil all those expectations. If we look what people did to Jesus, who healed sick and helped many, he got killed. Perhaps it is not good idea to full fil the expectations, when people rather kill person, who does that?

[1213]

It is little disturbing that often people think it is their own merit, when things go well, but when things go bad, God is the one who is blamed.

For the record, only theists do that.

That doesn’t seem to be true. Theists don’t usually blame God. By what I know, they rather think it is their fault if things don’t go well. Theist seem to think the problem is in them that they have done something wrong and they try to repent, improve themselves.

"A drowning man catches at a straw." It's not that interesting. The interesting cases are those who still don't pray for divine help when things go bad.

Yes, that is truly interesting, if drowning man doesn’t ask help.

Would be nice to hear from atheists, should God care of people if they are unthankful egoistical bastards when things are well and when things are not well, people are hypocrite cranks that don’t take responsibility of their own actions.

Yes, that's what a god logically must do to qualify as both omnipotent and good. Hence the problem of evil.

In Biblical point of view, there is not problem of evil. People wanted to know evil and therefore we are in this first death to learn what evil and good really means. Nothing of this lesson world can destroy our soul, which is the important thing. Our current body is not all and it is not meant to last forever and it can be replaced. That is why:

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell….
Matt. 10:28

Evil is problem only in atheistic point of view, because for atheist, flesh is only thing. And in that point of view I can understand the problem, atheist has nothing else and because it is not meant that this lesson lasts forever, there is not much hope for atheist.

[Divine Insight]

…The problem is people believing that such an all-loving God would must fulfill a person's expectations of love. God should feed all the poor, God should heal all the sick, God should regrow limbs, God should pay for all my bills, etc. ..

I think you have good points. I hope this doesn’t distract too much, but it is interesting, what would happen, if God would fulfil all those expectations. If we look what people did to Jesus, who healed sick and helped many, he got killed. Perhaps it is not good idea to full fil the expectations, when people rather kill person, who does that?

I don't understand what you are trying to suggest here.

Who thinks that anyone involved in the crucifixion of Jesus was acting out of love?

[PinSeeker]

Your arguments simply aren't making any sense PinSeeker.

To you. That, I do know. They don't make sense... to you. But that really doesn't mean a whole lot, does it?

In a debate with me it means you are losing the debate. And that's all that would be relevant.

Uncompelling apologetics is failed apologetics.

Just because it's "uncompelling" to you means nothing, really, DI. Not that your opinion (or anybody else's) means nothing, but it's just that -- merely your opinion.

Aside from that, I'm not engaging in any kind of "debate." My objective is merely to tell the truth, according to God. What He does with that is His business.

But hey, the next time I get into a debate, in order to win, I'll just say to the other guy, "Your arguments don't make any sense," and walk away feeling all good about myself...

[PinSeeker]

Your arguments simply aren't making any sense PinSeeker.

To you. That, I do know. They don't make sense... to you. But that really doesn't mean a whole lot, does it?

In a debate with me it means you are losing the debate. And that's all that would be relevant.

Uncompelling apologetics is failed apologetics.

This clearly reveals the effectiveness of Christian apologetics. It convinces only those who are already convinced.

Actually no, it convinces those whose heart is no longer in its natural state. The mind always follows the heart.