Pressing matters of the day and of all time, debated among thoughtful participants of all faiths

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:50 pm  Book of Mormon Reply with quote

Recently saw the Book of Mormon in London (expensive tickets....ouch!). It received a very warm standing ovation and I really enjoyed it. (Maybe not £160 enjoyed it but enjoy it I did).

But is the Book of Mormon picking on easy targets? Is there a more restrained and politely civil religion than Mormonism. But not all are so nice to their detractors.

Is the New Testament too hot to mock? I don't think the Life of Brian mocked the NT, or if it did, not in the full on way the BoT gets its teeth into the BoT. If the Book of Mormon had been the Book of the NT would it have even been allowed to open? Would there be a backlash if it had?

Clearly in present times the Qur'an is too hot unless the writers wanted to spend the rest of their life in hiding with a body guard. True the writers of South Park did put Mohammad in a bear suit, but that is about as far as they dare push it. (Drawing a bear and saying Mohammed was inside it). Can we dream of a day when irreverence breaks out in Islam and Mohammad can come out the bear suit?

Or for the time being are we - of an irreverent nature - going to restrict our mockery to the oh so polite religions and turn a little pale in the face of the more forceful religions.
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 21: Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:48 pm
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Furrowed Brow wrote:

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I think we'll have to wait a long time. One problems is that even if there was a Monty Python styled Life of Achmed about Achmed an unfortunate fellow whose mishaps bore a passing resemblance to the life of Mohamed - the makers of such a show would risk much.

I just watched an half hour Q&A given by Chris Morris. He spent three years researching the movie Four Lions and was very careful to lampoon the Islamic terrorists but not Mohamed. If a comedian like Chris Morris who otherwise appears to have no boundaries tiptoes around the subject then we are a long way away from Islam being the an open target for comedians. They may nibble around the edges like Morris but that's about it. But then Monty Python always insisted they were not lampooning Jesus. Their claimed target was religion and religious people - that and Latin grammar Smile.


And therein lies a major difference between Muslims and Christians. If you lampoon Mohammed, the Muslim will want you dead. If you lampoon Jesus, the Christian will pray for you.

And we only have to go to their holy books to find out why. Jesus says we are to love our enemies. Mohammed says they are to be killed.

I say that, fully realizing, that there are Christians who, sadly, fail to live out that command from Christ and Muslims who, thankfully, don't live out that command from Mohammed.

But, if you look at the basic tenets of both religions, it's easy to see that Christianity is the religion of peace while Islam is not. ISIS is doing EXACTLY what the Quran instructs them to do.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 22: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:02 am
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Overcomer wrote:
And therein lies a major difference between Muslims and Christians. If you lampoon Mohammed, the Muslim will want you dead. If you lampoon Jesus, the Christian will pray for you.

Some Muslims would want a lampooner dead. Not all. And if we go back about 300 hundred years a lot of Christians would have seen the Monty Python team dead.

Overcomer wrote:
And we only have to go to their holy books to find out why. Jesus says we are to love our enemies.

I'd say Jesus was on the peaceful side. But the old testament is not peaceful and Christians do not no reject the old testament. The problem here is selecting what we want to emphasise.

History shows Christianity became far more peaceful post enlightenment. It was the writings and philosophy of a bunch of atheists, agnostics and deists that as Christopher Hitchens put it "defanged" christianity.

The major difference between the "Christian world" and the "Islamic world" is the latter has yet to go through its own enlightenment.

Overcomer wrote:
Mohammed says they are to be killed

There is no general command to that effect. But yes there are specific caveats in the Quaran that allow that. Non Muslims who break treaties and try to kill Muslims may be killed. True this a different stance to that taken by Jesus and there is a clear distance between the Quaran and the New Testament on this point. But it is false to suggest Mohammed gave a blanket command to kill non Muslims. I also think the very bloody history of Christianity proves that it is simplistic to point to doctrine as an inspiration for religious inspired violence. Christianity has managed a lot of blood despite the doctrinal constraints. I'd suggest the source of that violence really boils down to questions of wealth and power. I'd also suggest the root of the problems we see at present are the same root.

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But, if you look at the basic tenets of both religions, it's easy to see that Christianity is the religion of peace while Islam is not. ISIS is doing EXACTLY what the Quran instructs them to do.

I'm, sorry and this is at a tangent but ISIS were doing what their CIA and NATO proxies and allies were paying them to do. There is a whole economic, geopolitical and military backdrop to ISIS that has nothing to do with religion other than religion was used as a recruiting tool for useful idiots. It is true ISIS are particularly medieval in their tactics and rhetoric but it would be naive to not also entertain the idea their generals do not have swiss bank accounts with their CIA handlers on speed dial.

There is also a reality check. From the September 2001 to this point the number of Muslim killed in Western wars and as a result of Western policy vastly outweigh the number of nominal Christians killed. This however invites a completely different debate that will be more about oil, petro-dollar and neocolonialism than religion. But in essence Western hegemony has allowed some quarters of the Islam to see themselves under the boot of an oppressor and that it is the Judeo-Christian West waging war on Muslims. A point I'd disagree with but they are standing on a lot of oil and gas.

I have no doubt there are many young men and women who see themselves in some sort or religious war. And indeed ISIS would be doing exactly what doctrine instructs them to do if they are killing non muslims who break treaties and that are trying to kill muslims. But rather than religion I tend to see the present state of the world and the conflicts in the Islamic world and the terrorism seen i the West as a consequence of economics not religion.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 23: Wed May 09, 2018 12:18 am
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Book Of Mormon.

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I have found the Book Of Mormon really sounds like the Quran, The Book Of Jubilees and also the Apocrypha books too.

They all seem to have the same style of writing.

Anyways this is what I have noticed. You can ask me to prove or explain more about it if You are interested.

Nice forum. You all are really interesting.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 24: Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:36 am
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I am coming a little late to this but here is my take: Parker and Stone seem to think that the Book of Mormon (the actual book, not their musical) is itself funny. They find humor in the accounts within the book and the origin of the book.

There is nothing particularly funny about the Bible or the Koran. I understand that people will make fun of the Bible or the Koran, but that is not the same thing as them being funny.

Consider, for example, how Parker and Stone have treated religion in the show South Park. They regularly mock Christian and Muslims, but the actual doctrines of Christianity and Islam are more or less left alone. On the other hand, their episodes about Mormonism, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and Christian Scientists mock the beliefs themselves. Right or wrong, Parker and Stone think that those beliefs themselves are funny.

Monty Python, when they did the Life of Brian, said it well. The group wanted to do a send up of Christianity. So they studied the New Testament, but found there was little to laugh at in it. They decided to do a movie about someone living at the time of Jesus, instead of about Jesus himself, because as John Cleese said, “There is nothing funny about good moral teaching.”

We will likely never see a Book of Mormon style comedy about the Bible or the Koran because those books simply are not funny. On the other hand, movies mocking Christians are a dime a dozen.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 25: Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:55 pm
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[Replying to post 24 by bjs]

I don't know. That story about the dude wearing nothing but a linen cloth and the other dudes grabbing him. Oddly, the story ends with him running away naked. What a bizarre interjection into a rather somber story leading up to Jesus' rather temporary death. Clearly a bit of comic relief.

Don't forget Joseph and Mary leaving Jesus behind at the temple. After all that with the angels, the wise men, gold and whatnot, you'd think they'd keep an eye on this magic boy. Maybe Joseph wasn't as enthused as Mary about this child which clearly wasn't his. "Jesus? Jesus who?"

Who can forget Jesus' reaction when Mary wanted him to fix the wine problem at somebodies wedding:

"Mom, I don't wanna."

"Do it, Jesus."

"I don't wanna."

"Listen, God, you do as I say."

"Yes, mommy!"

None of this takes Revelation into account where the real fun starts! Jesus the love hippie from the gospels takes up a sword and acts all bad and stuff. Yeah, like I'm scared. Where's Mary, she'll tell you to knock it off. "Oh, Mary, your boy is misbehaving!"

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 26: Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:22 am
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[Replying to Tcg]

I agree that there are a few passages, such as Mark 14:51-52, that might be mild comic relief.

However, your illustration about the Wedding at Cana proves my overall point. In order to make the story even a little humorous you had to completely ignore the second chapter of John and make up an entirely different story. If we look at the Bible or the Koran themselves then they are simply not that funny.

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