If Jesus died to "pay for" our sins, why didn't he go around preaching "I'm going to die to pay for your sins"?
Could it be that doctrine is only a theological interpretation of Jesus martrydom? An interpretation after the fact?
If Jesus died to "pay for" our sins..
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- Savant
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If Jesus died to "pay for" our sins..
Post #1 My theological positions:
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
- ttruscott
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Re: If Jesus died to "pay for" our sins..
Post #51Irrelevant if written by inspiration from GOD.polonius wrote:RESPONSE: Please note that Luke 9:22 was written about 50 years after the fact, by a non-witness nor Apostle.ttruscott wrote:Only? It is the perfect theological meaning of His act! He taught them He must die: Luke 9:22 And he said, "The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life." etc, etc.Elijah John wrote: If Jesus died to "pay for" our sins, why didn't he go around preaching "I'm going to die to pay for your sins"?
Could it be that doctrine is only a theological interpretation of Jesus martrydom? An interpretation after the fact?
Why?
Isa 53:7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet He did not open His mouth. He was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so He did not open His mouth. 8 By oppression and judgment He was taken away, and who can recount His descendants? For He was cut off from the land of the living; He was stricken for the transgression of My people.
Thanks for sharing your opinion....And the "Suffering Servant" story was written about Israel and Jacob, not Jesus.
PCE Theology as I see it...
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
- ttruscott
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Re: If Jesus died to "pay for" our sins..
Post #52PCE Theology as I see it...
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
- onewithhim
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Re: If Jesus died to "pay for" our sins..
Post #54[Replying to post 44 by polonius]
One man's martyr is another man's insurrectionist. A martyr to those whom Jesus inspired was considered a cause of civil unrest by the ruling Romans.
Martry? Traitor? the two are not mutually exclusive.
But I agree, Paul's interpretation of the event as an atonement is a theologicial notion, and I doubt very much it was preached by the historical (read "real") Jesus.
One man's martyr is another man's insurrectionist. A martyr to those whom Jesus inspired was considered a cause of civil unrest by the ruling Romans.
Martry? Traitor? the two are not mutually exclusive.
But I agree, Paul's interpretation of the event as an atonement is a theologicial notion, and I doubt very much it was preached by the historical (read "real") Jesus.
My theological positions:
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
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- Savant
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Re: If Jesus died to "pay for" our sins..
Post #55Doesn't the battle of Armeggedon play any role in your organization's end times thelogy? Seems to me that is a politcal restoration of Israel's predominance in the Kingdom of God.onewithhim wrote: There is NO prophesy that said that the Messiah would be involved in the politics and wars of this world.
But I confess, I'm no expert on the matter.
My theological positions:
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
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Re: If Jesus died to "pay for" our sins..
Post #56[Replying to post 54 by Elijah John]
Yes, but they don't believe they will have to exert any effort. God's invisible angels will do it all. Big question would be, if God is intervening at this level, isn't he involved in politics of this world?
Yes, but they don't believe they will have to exert any effort. God's invisible angels will do it all. Big question would be, if God is intervening at this level, isn't he involved in politics of this world?
- onewithhim
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Re: If Jesus died to "pay for" our sins..
Post #57Remember I said that Jesus plays no part in the politics or wars of this world. There is no nation, including Israel, that will be restored after Armageddon.Elijah John wrote:Doesn't the battle of Armeggedon play any role in your organization's end times thelogy? Seems to me that is a politcal restoration of Israel's predominance in the Kingdom of God.onewithhim wrote: There is NO prophesy that said that the Messiah would be involved in the politics and wars of this world.
But I confess, I'm no expert on the matter.
Armageddon will be God's war and will not be fought by any humans. It is the time when Jehovah, by Jesus, will eliminate all human governments. The physical nation of Israel stopped being significant to God when the religious leaders turned against the Messiah, Jesus. After that his followers wrote that the new Christian congregation was the "special possession" of God, the "people of God." (IPeter 2:9,10) Israel had not kept its agreements with Jehovah, thus cancelling out their "specialness," and being abandoned by God. (Matthew 23:37,38; Matthew 21:43) See also Deuteronomy 30:15-18.
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Re: If Jesus died to "pay for" our sins..
Post #58You could say, technically, yes. But not in a way that influences what the nations do now, in this system of things. He lets them go on with their political schemes and their wars and does not get involved in any way. When he eliminates them, then we could say he will be getting involved. He will set up his own government, to the dislike of the world's rulers.brianbbs67 wrote: [Replying to post 54 by Elijah John]
Yes, but they don't believe they will have to exert any effort. God's invisible angels will do it all. Big question would be, if God is intervening at this level, isn't he involved in politics of this world?