Brainwashed ...

[StuartJ]

Brainwashing (also known as mind control, menticide, coercive persuasion, thought control, thought reform, and re-education) is the concept that the human mind can be altered or controlled by certain psychological techniques.

Brainwashing is said to reduce its subjects ability to think critically or independently,[1] to allow the introduction of new, unwanted thoughts and ideas into the subjects mind,[2] as well as to change his or her attitudes, values, and beliefs.[3][4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainwashing

Is this an accurate description of religion ...?

[StuartJ]

[Replying to post 99 by Clownboat]

I suggest you are right ...

The focus is being taken off the OP ...

AGAIN

Brainwashing only here ...

And that's NONNEGOTIABLE

[StuartJ]

The good Christian gentleman in the below video sure looks to me like he's evidence for points in RedEye's list



And the servile, obedient congregation give him an "amen" on command.

[brunumb]

The good Christian gentleman in the below video sure looks to me like he's evidence for points in RedEye's list



And the servile, obedient congregation give him an "amen" on command.

I'm sensing a "No True Christian" response coming up soon. That preacher seriously needs to get help (or something I probably can't say it here)

[Guy Threepwood]

Yes, but my point was that even atheist beliefs are negotiable in reality, they can be brought out from behind their nonnegotiable / non-belief framing.

You do a disservice by making such a claim. I'm not an atheist myself, but I have taken the time to understand that atheism is a lack of belief (in the gods specifically).

I don't collect stamps.
Do you now consider me to be a non stamp collecter? What does my lack of collecting stamps inform you about myself?

Some people are non god believers. What does their lack of collecting stamps or lack of believing in any of the available gods tell you?

I submit that crying "atheist beliefs" is nothing more than a failed attempt at leveling the playing field. Atheists in general do not belong to any organization. They simply do not collect stamps, I mean, simply don't believe in any of the available god concepts. Full stop.


As an a-naturalist, I don't believe in any of the purely naturalistic/materialistic explanations for life and the universe. I lack belief in those things, my position regarding this is one of non-belief. Period.

so that tells you nothing about what I actually do believe... right?

Religions are mechanism for strife it seems and they love nothing better than to attack other competing religions. Perhaps some victims have been conditioned to view atheism as a competing religion that they can go to war against? That would explain all the 'atheist belief' nonsense we see.

USSR, North Korea, Communist China, atheist states which caused more strife in a single recent generation, than every religious conflict in the history of humanity combined.

But I don't use this as an argument against what atheists believe - most I know are perfectly reasonable rational people who wish harm on nobody- I like to think I was when I was one!

Can we then at least agree on one thing; politicians should not use either belief (or non belief if framed that way) for their own goals?

[Guy Threepwood]

Yes, but my point was that even atheist beliefs are negotiable in reality, they can be brought out from behind their nonnegotiable / non-belief framing.

You do a disservice by making such a claim. I'm not an atheist myself, but I have taken the time to understand that atheism is a lack of belief (in the gods specifically).

I don't collect stamps.
Do you now consider me to be a non stamp collecter? What does my lack of collecting stamps inform you about myself?

Some people are non god believers. What does their lack of collecting stamps or lack of believing in any of the available gods tell you?

I submit that crying "atheist beliefs" is nothing more than a failed attempt at leveling the playing field. Atheists in general do not belong to any organization. They simply do not collect stamps, I mean, simply don't believe in any of the available god concepts. Full stop.

Religions are mechanism for strife it seems and they love nothing better than to attack other competing religions. Perhaps some victims have been conditioned to view atheism as a competing religion that they can go to war against? That would explain all the 'atheist belief' nonsense we see.

As an a-naturalist, I don't believe in any of the purely naturalistic/materialistic explanations for life and the universe. I lack belief in those things, my position regarding this is one of non-belief. Period.

so that tells you nothing about what I actually do believe... right?

Religions are mechanism for strife it seems and they love nothing better than to attack other competing religions. Perhaps some victims have been conditioned to view atheism as a competing religion that they can go to war against? That would explain all the 'atheist belief' nonsense we see.

USSR, North Korea, Communist China, atheist states which caused more strife in a single recent generation, than every religious conflict in the history of humanity combined.

But I don't use this as an argument against what atheists believe - most I know are perfectly reasonable rational people who wish harm on nobody- I like to think I was when I was one!

Can we then at least agree on one thing; politicians should not use either belief (or non belief if framed that way) for their own goals?

[StuartJ]

Here's another young mind ...

Spoken to directly by "God", so it seems.

I expect the speaking only happened inside his head ...

And Yahweh didn't flutter down for a chat and a cheeseburger like he did with Abraham

Was young Minister Ezekiel able to analyse and verify the evidence for the "God" stuff before he started preaching it ...

Or was he swamped from a very early age with all the "faith" of his farhers ...

In nothing more than an environment that ticks a whole bunch of RedEye's boxes for brainwashing ...?

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 106 by StuartJ]

Let's not forget Marjoe Gortner. He very well may have been the prototype for this new crop of child preachers.



"Hugh Marjoe Ross Gortner (born January 14, 1944 in Long Beach, California) is a former evangelist preacher and actor. He first gained public attention during the late 1940s when his parents arranged for him at age four to be ordained as a preacher, due to his extraordinary speaking ability. He was the youngest known in that position. As a young man, he preached on the revival circuit and brought celebrity to the revival movement."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marjoe_Gortner

Later in life he gained a second round of fame when he starred in a documentary in which he revealed some of the cons his parents taught him to use to trick his audiences. He also revealed that fact that he wasn't a believer.

Marjoe would qualify more as a brainwasher than a brainwashed one. It'd be interesting to follow the lives of this new crop to see if there are parallels.

Of course the fact that one is a brainwasher doesn't disqualify one from having been brainwashed. We all know that old saying about monkeys.

[StuartJ]

[Replying to post 107 by Tcg]

Later in life he gained a second round of fame when he starred in a documentary in which he revealed some of the cons his parents taught him to use to trick his audiences. He also revealed that fact that he wasn't a believer.

I rather suspect there is a larger number of preachers in the same pulpit than the ever-credulous congregations may realise.

The "Atheists in the Pulpit" link is worth posting again:

https://owlcation.com/misc/Atheists-in- ... the-Clergy

[FWI]

[Replying to post 98 by rikuoamero]

I'm confused. An atheist is a person who lacks a belief in gods. So lets say he gets converted, now believes there are gods. He went from lacking a belief in godsto having a belief in gods. He was atheist on Monday, but on Tuesday, became a theist.

Yes, it is true that atheists "claim" not to believe in gods, but most of these claims are just a facadeThis is evident by the "almost" obsessive need to find the one, who could lead them out of their troublesome situation. I realize that this opinion will be rejected, but it is real. The barrage of questions and hypothetical situations, which most introduce is quite telling. Even, you support this premise, by introducing the possibility of an individual, being an atheist on Monday and on Tuesday being a theist.

Yet, to be a true atheist it would be impossible for them, to even consider to believe in God. The bible gives the example of the fallen angels as proof of this. They cannot convert back to God's ways, there fate is locked in. This is because of a "nonnegotiable" stance and their deep animosity towards God and His powers.

However, even the true believers in God have a "nonnegotiable" stance concerning His existence. Where, others are caught-up in their own troublesome situations. Therefore, the differences (exhibited) between these groups will determine who's brainwashed and who's not

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 107 by Tcg]

Later in life he gained a second round of fame when he starred in a documentary in which he revealed some of the cons his parents taught him to use to trick his audiences. He also revealed that fact that he wasn't a believer.

I rather suspect there is a larger number of preachers in the same pulpit than the ever-credulous congregations may realise.

The "Atheists in the Pulpit" link is worth posting again:

https://owlcation.com/misc/Atheists-in- ... the-Clergy

Unlike Marjoe, it seems that a great many of these folks started out believing, but lost their faith once they got a glimpse behind the curtain in their seminary studies. The con they became aware of is much more subtle than Marjoe's game, but still a con.

Marjoe really never had much chance to buy his own message. He not only became aware of the con much too young, but in fact was a player in the con by age four or younger.

Other's fell for his game though. During his childhood, Marjoe made his parents three million dollars. Cash from those who believed his act was real.

Of course some folks become so emotionally invested in the story that they refuse to even consider the realities these seminarians are exposed to. It's as if they have lost the ability to see the con even when it is spelled out clearly.