"believe on faith"

Getting to know more about a specific belief

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tam
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"believe on faith"

Post #1

Post by tam »

Peace to you all!

In an ongoing conversation and various other places, this description... Christians "believe on faith"... has been brought up. I must admit that I do not understand this idea at all. So perhaps I am misunderstanding what people mean when they say this.


Atheists, agnostics, people of any faith or non-faith, please feel free to weigh in. I am not interested in whether or not you agree with 'believing on faith', nor do I wish to debate the matter (at least not on this thread). I am just interested in the explanation of what people believe it means.


Peace again, and thank you!

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Re: "believe on faith"

Post #2

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 1 by tam]

I think its a corruption of the expression "to take [something] on faith" meaning to accept something on the word of another without necessarily verifying or demanding proof.

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http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: "believe on faith"

Post #3

Post by Divine Insight »

JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 1 by tam]

I think its a corruption of the expression "to take [something] on faith" meaning to accept something on the word of another without necessarily verifying or demanding proof.

JW
For me, this is exactly what it means.

After all, if there was any convincing evidence for it why would I need to believe it on "Faith".

I don't believe in evolution on "faith". I believe in evolution because it's been rationally explained and overwhelming evidence has been provided to verify that the explanations make sense.

On the other hand why should I believe in Allah and that Muhammad was his last prophet who corrected all the errors in the Bible re-writing it as the Qur'an before flying off to heaven on a winged horse. That I would need to believe on pure faith because there is no rational evidence to support it.

Same thing goes for Christianity that proclaims that some invisible God impregnated a virgin woman who gave birth to a demigod who was ultimately crucified and then rose from the dead and flew off to heaven on a cloud or whatever.

Both of those religions require "taking something on faith" without any verifiable or rational evidence for those claims.

And both of those religions further proclaim that their invisible God is ticked off at everyone because of what some primordial man named Adam supposedly did. Again we must "take this on faith" as we certainly have no verifiable evidence that such a thing ever happened, or that any invisible angry God exists.

To ask me to believe in Christianity you may as well be asking me to believe in Zeus. There is absolutely no difference at all. Neither of these fables have any verifiable evidence to back them up.

To believe in any of them require a "Leap of Faith" that actually defies the overwhelming evidence against these ancient myths.

We actually have very good rational reasons to believe that these fables are not true.

So to believe in them "on faith" not only requires that we believe them without evidence, but it actually requires that we believe them in spite of the fact that there is overwhelming evidence against them.
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Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
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Re: "believe on faith"

Post #4

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 3 by Divine Insight]

I didn't add any more information because the OP said...
tam wrote: I am not interested in whether or not you agree with 'believing on faith', nor do I wish to debate the matter (at least not on this thread). I am just interested in the explanation of what people believe it means.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Post #5

Post by OnceConvinced »

It sounds to me very much like claiming knowledge when all it really is, is just very solid faith. Christians tend to say "they know" because it makes them feel empowered and that their faith in God is extremely strong.

I'm guessing that it whether they consciously intend to or not, they are trying to sound impressive when it comes to others. By saying for instance "I KNOW God exists" it sounds a lot more assertive. A lot more confident. A lot more authoritative. a lot more FAITHFUL than just "I believe God exists" or "I have faith God exists". They hope to make themselves sound special and elevated above others.

But the reality is, knowledge can be shared and it can be taught. If it can't be then it's not very good knowledge.

So yeah. Believing on faith very much seems to be just another word for "knowledge". Knowledge that really is just faith in disguise.

Here's an example. When someone prays the sinner's prayer, why are they praying it? Here they are, someone who before was probably not a believer. For some reason they are now convinced that Jesus is real and that they need to pray to him. They can't possibly "know" that Jesus is real and that they must pray to him. This is something that they have become convinced of. Something they have realized they need to do. But they can't possibly have that knowledge that it's real. So what do they do? They believe on faith, because that's all they have. They take another persons word for it... or the bible's word for it, because there is no way they can really "know". They then take a step of faith and prayer the sinners prayer.

So when someone says "I know God exists". It's all hot air. They don't know. They have just become convinced that he exists. Due to faith. Then they go on to say "I know God exists, so I can have faith that... bla bla bla..."

It makes them sound very wise and impressive. But it's all bells and whistles. We should be able to look beyond those bells and whistles. Many of us do and know that it's just bells and whistles. It's the believer trying to sound impressive.

Society and its morals evolve and will continue to evolve. The bible however remains the same and just requires more and more apologetics and claims of "metaphors" and "symbolism" to justify it.

Prayer is like rubbing an old bottle and hoping that a genie will pop out and grant you three wishes.

There is much about this world that is mind boggling and impressive, but I see no need whatsoever to put it down to magical super powered beings.


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Post #6

Post by tam »

Thanks everyone for commenting and explaining what you it means to you. I might ask questions later for clarification, but right now I'm just hoping more people will chime in.

I don't want anyone to feel that they have to defend their view here on this thread though. This is not the debate part of the forum.



Peace again to you!

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Post #7

Post by YahDough »

[Replying to post 6 by tam]
Hi tam,

The differences between the words "faith" and "belief" can seem obscure. And when we add the concept of "knowing", we find it may be hard to convey just exactly what we think about the truths we seek.

To "believe on faith" would be better said to "have faith enough to believe by Bible definition standards,".

The way I have come to see faith v. belief v. know is:

1. Faith is the amount of confidence we have in what we believe
2. To have complete confidence/faith is to believe.
3. The fullness of belief is to know.

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Post #8

Post by Freethinker43 »

" To believe on faith" to me means to strongly trust a source not because of the evidence the source presents, but because I implicitly trust the source itself. Reason becomes abrogated in favor of faith, in that case.

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Faith Vs Deeds

Post #9

Post by Yusef »

tam wrote: Peace to you all!
May God Give you the same "Faith" the same concept you say.
It's the best pray for anyone!
Even i meet the most dangerous sick and I say if God Give me a two-radio check optionally selection, and
o Health
o Faith
100% i choose the Faith for him!
I do realize/known/experienced what the Faith is!
In an ongoing conversation and various other places, this description... Christians "believe on faith"... has been brought up. I must admit that I do not understand this idea at all. So perhaps I am misunderstanding what people mean when they say this.


Atheists, agnostics, people of any faith or non-faith, please feel free to weigh in. I am not interested in whether or not you agree with 'believing on faith', nor do I wish to debate the matter (at least not on this thread). I am just interested in the explanation of what people believe it means.


Peace again, and thank you!
I have to answere you from quoting of the Religion, otherwise i'm the fool and blinded, and according to saying of Prophet Jesus[pbuh]: "how can a blinded guide an other blinded"
The most important keymagic that I quoted here:
viewtopic.php?p=942962#942962

Well,
In our Religion, Islam/Shi'a, our 12 Imams[pbuth] ccommanded us in priority:
1) Detest Taghuts
What the Taghut is:
viewtopic.php?p=945888#945888
2) Faith
3) Good Behaviour/deed


See!! How much Faith is important!!

One asked our Imam, the sixth, Ja'far Al-Sadigh[pbuh]:
We see Non-Shi'a muslims that have very well behaviors/deeds/praying/any acting of religious..
And see us Shi'as people that aren't serious in religious behaviors!!
Then the Imam[pbuh] answered: "those Shi'as are better because of their Faith! As everywhere of Qur'an God HaS Given Faith before Deed!
there were 40 high-rank spiritual men among Bani-Israel and each one of them didn't pray along God 40nights but in the 41st day his asking would be AcceptED By God! But one of them whom had much more 40night but God Didn't AcceptED his praying...
He asked Prophet Jesus[pbuh], the Prophet asked Gabriel[pbuh], Gabriel brought his answere from God; O' Jesus' God SendS you AsSalam[peace] and SayS tell my servant that even if you worship me until your fingers and neck fall down[means so much worshipping and be so weak] but you don't come to me through my way , I won't accept your asking/praying!
Then the Prophet asked the spiritual: Do you doubt about me!!!?
He answered: actually Yes! And please ask God to Clear my heart from any doubt about you!
Then he returned back like those 39 others!

WE 12 IMAMS, OUR STORY IS LIKE THAT
I assume your beliefs are the better! Well, be soldier of God and convert me. By your own reasonings also tell me my wrong beliefs and why..>> :study:

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Re: Faith Vs Deeds

Post #10

Post by Yusef »

Yusef wrote:
tam wrote: Peace to you all!
May God Give you the same "Faith" the same concept you say.
It's the best pray for anyone!
Even i meet the most dangerous sick and I say if God Give me a two-radio check optionally selection, and
o Health
o Faith
100% i choose the Faith for him!
I do realize/known/experienced what the Faith is!
In an ongoing conversation and various other places, this description... Christians "believe on faith"... has been brought up. I must admit that I do not understand this idea at all. So perhaps I am misunderstanding what people mean when they say this.


Atheists, agnostics, people of any faith or non-faith, please feel free to weigh in. I am not interested in whether or not you agree with 'believing on faith', nor do I wish to debate the matter (at least not on this thread). I am just interested in the explanation of what people believe it means.


Peace again, and thank you!
I have to answere you from quoting of the Religion, otherwise i'm the fool and blinded, and according to saying of Prophet Jesus[pbuh]: "how can a blinded guide an other blinded"
The most important keymagic that I quoted here:
viewtopic.php?p=942962#942962

Well,
In our Religion, Islam/Shi'a, our 12 Imams[pbuth] ccommanded us in priority:
1) Detest Taghuts
What the Taghut is:
viewtopic.php?p=945888#945888
2) Faith
3) Good Behaviour/deed


See!! How much Faith is important!!

One asked our Imam, the sixth, Ja'far Al-Sadigh[pbuh]:
We see Non-Shi'a muslims that have very well behaviors/deeds/praying/any acting of religious..
And see us Shi'as people that aren't serious in religious behaviors!!
Then the Imam[pbuh] answered: "those Shi'as are better because of their Faith! As everywhere of Qur'an God HaS Given Faith before Deed!
there were 40 high-rank spiritual men among Bani-Israel and each one of them didn't pray along God 40nights but in the 41st day his asking would be AcceptED By God! But one of them whom had much more 40night but God Didn't AcceptED his praying...
He asked Prophet Jesus[pbuh], the Prophet asked Gabriel[pbuh], Gabriel brought his answere from God; O' Jesus' God SendS you AsSalam[peace] and SayS tell my servant that even if you worship me until your fingers and neck fall down[means so much worshipping and be so weak] but you don't come to me through my way , I won't accept your asking/praying!
Then the Prophet asked the spiritual: Do you doubt about me!!!?
He answered: actually Yes! And please ask God to Clear my heart from any doubt about you!
Then he returned back like those 39 others!

WE 12 IMAMS, OUR STORY IS LIKE THAT
Again The Connection/Keywords of crossword!
What about these 40 holy persons at The Last Time!? :study:

I quoted here:
The Book of Revelation of Yuhanna
viewtopic.php?p=946873#946873
I assume your beliefs are the better! Well, be soldier of God and convert me. By your own reasonings also tell me my wrong beliefs and why..>> :study:

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