Communicating with Mayflower ancestors

John Human · Post by **John Human** » Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:12 pm

On the "debate with a scientist" thread I mentioned (at the beginning) the phenomenon of communicating with ancestors, but the discussion on that thread has gone (for the moment) in a different direction. Here is some raw data, being saved for when the discussion comes back around to this subject. I began at 5:33 pm, at a Starbucks in Sumner, Washington.

I typed the statements of several ancestors associated with the Mayflower and the earlier "Pilgrim" congregation in Leiden, Holland. All except one (Edward Fuller) had begun their stories before. (This means that the statements below have an unseen context; I'll try to add what came earlier in a second post.) As I started, six men were ready to speak. They were aware that I intended to share what they said publicly, and they were comfortable with this. Their words appeared in my mind, and I typed, in effect taking dictation. I simply typed quickly, without any thought, except for one point where the word used ("evolved") was not what I expected to 'hear.' That led to an explanatory statement from the ancestor.

Here is what I 'heard' and typed:

Mar. 20, 2019 (at Starbucks in Sumner) 5:33 pm
James Chilton: James understood, before he decided to go to Holland, that the experience would be a fundamental change. James knew that Holland had a different way. James understood that Holland, even if it had true religion, had to think of itself as a nation distinct from England. James would have to think of conforming and not trying to maintain customs that James considered obligatory. James had to think that James and other Christian foreigners would not be troubled. James knew that Holland had toleration more than England. James also knew that his religion was very close to that of the people in Holland. That did not concern James.

5:35 pm
William Bradford: William Bradford understood, because of what he knew, that William had to think of ways to find an answer to the thought that William was outside the community because he wanted to worship as he knew he must. William had to think that the community would reject. William had to think, because of this, William did not think of leaving. William had to think of exciting discussion. William hoped to make people discover what William had discovered. The Bible was different from what the Church taught. This was the ambition that led William to try to talk to a minister.

William did not think that the minister would agree. William was shocked. The minister acknowledged that the Bible was different from the teaching of the English Church. William thought, because of this, William did not think badly of the minister. William had to consider the expression, â€œWe have a knowledge of how the Bible evolved.â€� William will acknowledge that the word â€œevolvedâ€� was not used. William will explain that William often thinks of words as he would say, and John appears to hear in a different way. William has accepted the advice of others to wait and let a thought settle in the mind of John. William can observe if the meaning is the same as the word that William thought of. William understands that this has to be the way that John communicates with ancestors who are not English. William does not understand further.

William decided to ask the minister how the accepted practice evolved. The minister explained that the accepted practice began with Jesus Christ. William did not think of this. The minister explained that the practice of the followers of Jesus Christ was different from the practice of the followers who received the Word from Paul. William did not think of this, either. The minister went on. The Roman Church had to adapt to the rule of the Emperor. The minister reminded William that Jesus said to give to Caesar what was of Caesar. The practice of the Church had to accept certain requirements and restrictions. This was for the Church to coexist in a way that harmonized the empire. William thought that this was a plausible explanation. William prayed. The prayer was answered. William had to restore. The church had evolved in a way that accepted impurities in order to survive. William would be part of a group that would help restore the Church. William now accepted the need to go to Holland.

5:42 pm John Carey: John Carey was not able to think, before leaving England that he would never go back. John simply acted as seemed correct. John had his name. John did not have anything else. John realized, in Holland, the name Carey would mean nothing. However, John understood that a man who gave a name that commanded respect would be respected. This was as John expected.

John Carey went to Holland and worked. John was not raised as a gentleman. John was a bastard. John was given the opportunity to learn. John was also give the opportunity to work. John had an education that was better than the education of a common working man. This gave John an advantage. John was able to understand what people had in mind before others were. This was the reason why John became a leader of workers in a shop. The shop owner needed somebody to understand and explain. John was able.

5:44 pm Myles Standish: Myles Standish did not think of himself as a Catholic. Myles thought of himself as a man without. Myles learned two religions. Myles had no way of knowing what was correct. Myles did not think, before going to America, that this was a problem. Myles simply did not think about religion. Myles was able to enroll in a military troop. This was something that Myles understood would give Myles an identity and respect. Myles was the son of a son of a younger son. Myles was the son of a man who had been punished. Myles had no station. The military, if Myles was competent, would give Myles a station that commanded the respect of his family. This was the ambition that Myles had.

5:47 pm Edward Doty: Edward Doty did not think that he would be unable to find a wife. Edward understood that, if Edward waited, a wife would show up. Edward prayed. Edward felt confident. Edward simply had to wait. Edward did not think, before going to church, that he would meet a new wife. Edward understood that the people in Plymouth were not increasing. Edward thought, eventually, Plymouth would have more children. But Edward would be too old. Edward did not despair.

Edward waited ten years. Then there was suddenly a great number of people. People came to Massachusetts. Edward understood that these people had the ambition of starting a country. They intended to be separate from England. Edward also understood that these people did not proclaim what they were doing. They acted as good Englishmen. Edward remembered that, because the group of Edward left without permission, the group of Edward had no right to have a government. This was always a concern. This new group had a government. The group had a document that the King gave. The new group had the claim to the land where the group of Edward lived. This was something that Edward had to consider. If Edward continued in his current location, the new group could eventually take all the land. Edward thought this would not happen. Edward thought, because of the situation, there would be a compromise. Edward knew, after the land question was resolved, that there was no fear. Edward had little. It would not be taken away.

Edward recognized that more people were coming. Plymouth was a destination for a certain type. Plymouth was more strict in religion. Massachusetts included ministers that disagreed with each other. This meant that Massachusetts had to find a way to accept disagreement. Plymouth had only one thinking. People who accepted the thinking of Plymouth came from Massachusetts. Edward found a wife.

5:51 pm Edward Fuller: Edward Fuller. Edward had the ability to think. Edward had the ability to decide. Edward did not. Edward decided to wait. That was a terrible mistake.

Edward Fuller did not have a good upbringing. Edward had a father who did not think of helping his son. The father worked. The farmer gave. The father and the farmer disagreed. Edward was without. Edward was taken. The father insisted. Edward was given back. Edward thought. Edward did not decide. Edward did not accept that the father could not give. Edward simply accepted.
Edward thought. Edward was a boy. Edward did not think. Edward accepted. Edward had to accept. That is what boys did. Edward did not think of rejecting. Edward simply accepted.

Edward had to endure. Edward was hungry. The father had work. The work gave little. Edward did not die. Edward was small. Edward understood. The food did not make Edward grow. There was not enough. Edward thought. Edward had to think. Edward understood. Edward could work. The father was weak. The father had little. The father did not allow Edward to work. Edward had to be away. Edward had to study. The father had a Bible. Edward read. Edward did not understand. Edward asked his father. The father explained. Edward thought. Edward learned.

5:56 pm William Bradford (again): William had to think, because of what had happened, that William could not prepare. William understood, if William looked like William intended to leave, there would be a problem. William would be prevented from leaving. No Englishman was allowed to leave without permission. William had to disobey. William did not like the way William felt. This was wrong. This was in response to a wrong. There had to be an explanation that could calm the conscience. William did not have one. William had to do as William felt necessary. This was not a change that William wanted.

5:58 pm John Jenney: John Jenney went to Holland. John decided to live in a city. John knew that John could find other Englishmen. John found work. John was a willing worker. John had skill. A miller had to know something of working with wood. A cooper gave work. John learned quickly. John was a cooperâ€™s man. This was good. John had the ability to learn. Dutch was not a difficult language. John had education. John had the ability to communicate. Dutch people looked to John to give messages to English people. John did not ask for money. John became respected.

John Human · Post by **John Human** » Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:25 pm

One week ago, I began recording the stories of a group of a dozen or so ancestors who were Mayflower passengers and/or members of the Separatist congregation in Leiden which gave the impetus to the Mayflower's voyage. My previous post gave several "middle of the story" statements. Below is all that came earlier. This is a bit chaotic; I am sharing my notes without an attempt to polish, as a way of preparing for future discussion on other threads about this phenomenon of communicating with ancestors.

James Chilton
(Mar. 13, 2019) James Chilton was the son of a man who was more than a farmer. James knew that his father was the son of a man who had land. The man had enough to not work with his hands. James knew that his father chose to work, so he could have more. That was a choice that meant that James would not find a wife from the class of the gentry. This was something that James did not regret. James found a wife who was a credit. James also found a wife who was able to bear children without terrible pain. This was a comfort. James knew, after the death of his wife, that James would marry again. The second wife was not of the same type. James knew that God had given him a lesson. James was much more considerate of men with difficult wives after his second marriage.

(Mar. 14, 2019) James Chilton had the experience of growing up in a family where religion was discussed. James understood that his father wanted James to understand the correct understanding of the Bible. James was aware that there were many confusing things in the Bible. James imagined that God did this to make it clear among humans who was a better leader. The better leaders understood. However, James had to think that, when a leader did not understand correctly, he led his followers astray.

James did not think that he wanted to be a minister. James understood, if he wanted to be a minister, James would have to study deeply. That was not what James wanted. James hoped to be a farmer. James understood that a farmer had time to study in the winter. That was the ambition of James.

James Chilton wanted to think that James and his family were good Christians. James heard his father discuss what a good Christian should believe. James understood that the Church did not accept some of the beliefs of good Christians. James understood that the Church had been corrupt under the Catholics. James also understood, because of this, the Church was still corrupt. The Church needed to be purified. This was the mission that Jamesâ€™s father hoped to share with his son.

James accepted the belief of his father. James had a way to test. James asked a man in his church about the sacrament of communion. The man said that communion was a remembrance of Jesus and his disciples. James thought this was not a complete answer. James asked the man if communion should be taken every week. James knew that the man would be unwilling to answer. If the man said yes, then the man would be thought of as a hidden Catholic. If the man said no, he had no basis in scripture. James understood, because the Church had to compromise, it kept communion every week. But James understood that early Christians took communion twice or three times a year. This was what James learned from his father.

James understood that this was not the most important thing. James also understood, because of what he learned, that it was important for James and his family to not argue. The important thing was to understand and obey.
(Mar. 15, 2019) James Chilton didnâ€™t think of having a relationship with a woman. James understood that a wife was to serve. James understood, because of the way of thinking of the time, that a man who paid attention to his wife beyond what was appropriate did not have a good chance of being respected. This was the thinking that dominated. A man must not show elaborate consideration for his wife. James knew, in some noble families, the wife was the recipient of elaborate gifts. James understood that this was a way of a man demonstrating his wealth. This was not for the benefit of the wife.
James was unable to think in any other way. James simply accepted the thinking of his time. James understands that thinking has changed. Women are given greater value. James also understands that women have the ability to do things that were forbidden in the time of James. This is something that James observes is not universal. James suspects that a country that accepts undue activity will eventually collapse. James knows that promotion of virtue is essential for a healthy country.

James Chilton knew, after his first marriage, that James had to think of having a family. This meant that James had to think of having enough through the winter. This was always a challenge. James understood that families that did not have enough had to beg in the spring. That meant that these families were mistrusted in the future. A family that had to beg more than once was always mistrusted. This meant that James had to ensure that James and his wife had more than enough. This was not difficult until more children were present. James understood that his farm could grow more if more men worked. James also understood that, eventually, James would have a son who could help the farm grow more. This meant that James would temporarily be rich. But it also meant that James had to save to provide for his son. The son needed to have help when he got married. A married son was expected to begin his own family. That meant that James had to think of a bigger understanding after James got married.

James Chilton will explain how James was educated. James understood that, because children learn quickly, James should try to learn as much as he could. That meant James had little time for other things. The father of James had a gift for encouraging. James read the Bible. The father explained. James began to learn much earlier than most. This helped James in the future. James was able to become a deacon. This meant that James had the ability to talk about the Bible as if James had knowledge. James was instructed by his father, who was attentive to the minister. The father of James was able to ask questions about points of doctrine. That meant that James benefitted also.

(Mar. 16, 2019)
James Chilton was able to think, as he understood, that the Bible was capable of being badly misinterpreted. James also understood, if there was no Bible, there would be no way to understand the will of God. This meant that people who worshipped had to understand the Bible. James understood, if James was to be a good member of his community, James would have to ensure that people around him had correct understanding. This became part of the will of James. James carried this thought through the rest of his life.
(Mar. 18, 2019) James Chilton was unable to live after arriving in Plymouth. This meant that James had little impact on what was decided. James has to think that his story must focus on the time in Leyden. This was a time of palling. James understood that, because of what was happening, the children were not becoming good Christians. The Dutch went to church. The Dutch danced. The Dutch acted in plays. James understood. This was the way toward temptation. This must not be encouraged. James was a leader in the decision to go to America. James insisted that he have the privilege of being able to ensure that his children did not feel tempted to do things that were inappropriate.
(will continue)

--
Guillebert De Lannoy
(Mar. 14, 2019) Guillebert de Lannoy was the son of a man with a noble ancestry. Guillebert was never in the line to inherit. Guillebert understood that his elder brother would inherit if his eldest brother died without a son. Guillebert had no thought of becoming the heir. Guillebert had no idea that this was going to happen. Guillebert could have inherited if Guillebert had not become a Protestant.

Guillebert was unable to resist the logic of the Protestant preacher. The town was divided. Many people held to the old way. Guillebert knew that his family was of this group. Many people did not think of religion. They left church on Sunday and did what they wanted. Guillebert was of this group. Guillebert wanted to respect his father, so Guillebert went to church without discussion. Guillebert was not afraid of the law.

(Mar. 15, 2019) Guillebert De Lannoy had to think that Guillebert had no opportunity. Guillebert was the third son. Guillebert had the ability to find a wife from a family of farmers. That meant that Guillebert would be a farmer. Guillebert resisited this thought. Guillebert thought that his family could help him. Guillebert was disappointed. Guillebert knew that his father was reluctant to marry him to the daughter of a family that would expect their daughter to be maintained in a way that she lived in before her marriage. That meant that Guillebert had to look for a wife. Guillebert found a wife from a family that was noble but not wealthy. The woman was clean and appropriate. The woman had no exptectation of finding a noble husband. The family simply did not have what was necessary. Guillebert had to be thankful. Guillebert also had to respect the father of his wife. The father had land. Guillebert had the opportunity to farm with the father. The father had servants. Guillebert had to accept that Guillebert would learn how to farm. That meant that Guillebert would work with his hands. Later, if Guillebert had enough, Guillebert could command the servant. This is what Guillebert accepted when Guillebert married. Guillebert left his own father for the father of his wife.
--
Jean De Lannoy
--
Philip De Lannoy
(Mar. 16, 2019) Philip De Lannoy was of a family that had a noble lineage. Philip knew that his father died very soon after he was born. Philip also knew that his uncle had the same name as his father. Philip was able to pretend to be the son of his uncle. Philip did this enough so his uncle was forgotten as a bastard. This was the purpose. Philip understood that this enabled respect for the family. Philip understands that this created confusion for descendants. Philip knew that, after he was in a good situation, Philip would be able to prosper because of his family. Philip did not think that he would leave.
Philip had to consider leaving when his sister married a man from the congregation from England. Philip understood that his sister needed a man from her family to be with the community. This was proper. Philip had little opportunity because he was an orphan. Philip had his uncle, but the uncle was not prosperous. Philip expected that his uncle hoped to have a son. Philip knew that his uncle had three sons who died. Philip did not think that his uncle would give up.

Philip decided, at the age of fifteen, to go with the congregation. The congregation did not go right away. Philip had time to get older. This was important. Philip had to be considered a man to be accepted. Philip could not go as a servant. This would not be appropriate. Philip had to ensure that his family had respect. This was something that Philip understood without thinking.

--
John Carey
(Mar. 17, 2019) John Cary was unable to know his father. John understood that his father was a man with a good name. John knew that the name was Shasting. John understood that his father was a man who had enough. John also knew that his father hid what happened. John understood that Shasting was not of the same level as Carey. John learned that his mother and father hoped to marry. They acted as man and wife. Then the father of Johnâ€™s mother refused to allow the marriage. This meant that John was a bastard. This meant, after John was a man, that people would not give John opportunities. John did not have anything from his grandfather. His grandfather was unable to forgive.

(Mar. 18, 2019) John Carey knew, after he left his home town, that John must make his own way in a foreign country. The name that John had was a name that was recognized. This name must be unnoticed. Cary was not a prominent name. But Cary had royal blood. Famillies with royal blood knew each other. John knew, by carrying the name Carey, John was unable to avoid explaining his origin. John was a bastard. John did not have the right to have the name. John carried the name because his mother insisted. John did not think of it until after he became an adult. John hoped that his father would understand. John knew that his father was also Carey. John thought, because of this, John had a good reason to have the name. However, John thought that other people would never understand.
--

John Jenney
(Mar. 14, 2019) John Jenney was a magistrate in Plymouth Colony. John was able. John was respected. John was not able to be received. John had to make his way. John will tell his story.

John was the son of a bastard with his fatherâ€™s name. John knew of his origin. John was aware that the town also knew. John was also aware that his property came to him because his grandfather cheated a woman who was the widow of a kinsman. John had to endure the knowledge that this happened. John hoped to be away from this ability. John knew, if he had the ability to give up the property, John would be clean. John had to maintain the property. John had to live from the income of the property. This meant that John had the responsibility of guarding what John hoped to give up. This was the life of John.
John understood, as John had no hope of maintaining the property as his own, John could not marry. John had to find a way to find a relative of the woman who would receive what John had from his grandfather. This was the ambition of John.

John knew, after becoming an adult, that John would not have any difficulty leaving. John understood that there was a place away from England where a miller could easily find work. John knew, in Holland, windmills were common. John supposed that milling with the wind was essentially the same as milling with water to run the mill. John hoped, in the future, to understand if this was true.

John Jenney was able to finally find a daughter of the woman who lost the property of her husband. John was able to explain what he had thought through the years. John told the woman that John wanted to ensure that the mill was given appropriately to a correct descendant. John imagined that a descendant would need to learn to manage a mill. John accepted the responsibility of teaching. John thought, after he did this, John could go to Holland.

(Mar. 16, 2019) John Jenney was able to not have to train a new miller. The family that John found desired to sell the mill. This meant that a new miller who knew how to mill purchased the property. John was left with very little. John had enough to go to Holland. John had no other interest in his town. John had no family. John knew the community. John was not disrespected. John was from a family that had stolen. John had paid the debt. Now John was free to leave, with a clean conscience.

--
Myles Standish
(Mar. 16, 2019) Myles Standish was the son of a man who refused to give up his Catholic faith. Myles understood that this cost him his inheritance. Myles also understood that Myles had an inheritance. This was from his great-grandfather, because the line of an elder uncle was defunct. Myles was unable to get his inheritance. Myles had to return to England, and Myles decided that this was not worth what it would cost. Myles had a family in Plymouth. His family would be bereft of husband and father. This meant that Myles had no hope of finding a good way to claim was his by right.

(Mar. 18, 2019) Myles Standish did not leave his home town. Myles was taken. Myles knew that his father was going to be punished. Myles had to leave and live with a relative. The relative lived far away. This was not a big problem. Myles got to know a different part of England. This was useful. Myles had to think that many people never traveled outside their town. That meant that many people simply did not think about things. They simply accepted the way that they were taught. Myles had to learn to think. This was very helpful.
(Mar. 19, 2019) Myles Standish had to think that, because of his young experience, Myles had to accept different ways of thinking. Myles was learning the Catholic doctrine. Myles was taken away from that. Then Myles was learning the Church of England doctrine. This was not completely different from the Catholic. Myles did not think much of whether either one was correct. Myles simply understood that it was important to learn the right thing to say.

--
(William Brewster)
(Mar. 19, 2019) William Brewster is not the ancestor of John. William was the father of a woman who married a descendant of an ancestor of John. William understands that this connection makes communication possible. William is of the opinion that the ancestors of John who were on the Mayflower were among the leaders, with one exception. William understand that that one exception, Edward Doty, is the only one of the Mayflower ancestors who descends to both of Johnâ€™s parents. William understands, because of this, Edward Doty had a relation with the ancestors who connect to his family through many links. This is unusual. William has observed, through the generations, that people who share ancestry have an affinity. William has to wonder about the affinity that Edward has for John.
--
Edward Winslow
(Mar. 16, 2019) Edward Winslow understood, before he left for Holland, that Holland offered safety. Edward, until his majority, was a member of the Church of England. This was required. Edward, the son of a man who lived as a gentleman, was expected to obey. Edward had the prospect of inheriting. Edward did not think of his inheritance. Edward understood that his father had borrowed. Edward had the expectation that nothing would remain. Edward would inherit debt. Edward had no qualm about leaving behind his apparent inheritance.
--
John Carver
(Mar. 17, 2019) John Carver was of the congregation that left England and went to Holland. John understood, after leaving, that Holland was not a perfect refuge. Holland would never accept foreigners as countrymen. John had the prospect of having children who would never be accepted. That meant that John had to encourage his wife to leave. This was difficult. John married the sister of Philip De Lannoy. This was looked on as a noble experiment. Could an Englishmen marry into a congregation that had the same belief but a different language. John spoke a bit of Dutch. John knew, after getting married, his Dutch would improve with his wife. And this happened. John had to learn.
John was unable to think of not going to the New World. When this voyage was proposed, John thought this was a gift that he could not pass up. John knew, before departing, that John was going to not be successful. John had a premonition. John experienced a vision of his death. John thought, if this was true, there would be a reason. John simply accepted. This was all that John could think of doing.
(will continue)
--
--
Stephen Tracy
(Mar. 16, 2019) Stephen Tracy was the son of a man who wanted to believe that God was good to his faithful. Stephen understood that his father believed that a wicked world was not a sign of a wicked God. This was what sustained the father of Stephen. Stephen understood, because of what his father said, that Stephen was destined to live in a foreign land. Stephen knew, before he left, that Holland was a land where Stephen and his kin could be safe. Stephen understood that the Church in Holland was of the same as the church that Stephen and his family joined. This meant that Stephen would not be persecuted. This meant that Stephen would find others with the same faith.
(Mar. 18, 2019) Stephen Tracy was able to go to Holland. Stephen did not think of staying. Stephen had to think, as soon as he could, Stephen would go to another country. The people in Holland were not of the type who made good Christians. The people were worldly. This was something that the church communicated. This was also something that Stephen observed. Stephen was relieved when a plan was made for people to leave. Stephen was one of those who chose to leave. Stephen was on the smaller boat that turned back. This meant that Stephen had to wait. The following year, another boat went. Stephen did not embark. The boat was full. There were few who wanted to go and couldnâ€™t. Stephen was one of them.
(will continue)
--
Tryphosa (Lee)
--
William Bradford
(Mar. 17, 2019) William Bradford was unable to live in peace. William had the opportunity to join a group that included two other men who went to Holland. This group was a new type of church. This church was separate from the Church of England. This group insisted that the Bible was better than old tradition that came from the Catholic past. The Bible showed the way of living and worship of the original Christians. This meant that William was disobeying the King. The members of this group were all aware of this. The members also went to the Church of England, to obey. They went and then they went to a service that was held in the same way as that shown in the Bible. William was unable to escape from the obligation to go to the Church of England. This was a problem that others handled in different ways.

(Mar. 19, 2019) William Bradford decided that, if William was going to be able to worship as he thought appropriate, William needed to not go the service at the Church of England. This meant that William would be in violation of the law. This was a decision that William took. This was not a family decision. William had a sister and a brother. Both went to the Church of England service. William was the only one who stopped. This meant that William had the opprobrium of being a renegade. This meant that the family was under suspicion. This meant that William had to leave, to protect the family. This is what William did.

--
Edward Fuller
--
Edward Doty
(Mar. 16, 2019) Edward Doty was the son of a woman with the name of Doty. Edward was apprenticed as a servant. Edward knew that his master intended to go to another land. Edward had the choice of not going. Edward didnâ€™t think of not going. Edward had the idea that if he was able to serve his master well, Edward would gain his freedom with enough to have land of his own. That was what Edward hoped for. That was what Edward got.

(Mar. 17, 2019) Edward Doty did not think, at the beginning of his life, that Edward could ever have enough. Edward was a bastard. Edward was never going to have an opportunity to be respected. Edward had to think, because he was a bastard, Edward had to limit what he expected. Edward thought of moving to a different place. Edward thought, if he did, he would have to do this in a way that made it impossible for people to know that he was a bastard. This is what Edward hoped to do by going to the New World.

Edward was the servant of a man who joined a group that was going to Virginia. Edward hoped that this would be enough. Edward knew that his master knew that Edward was a bastard. This meant that the master could ensure that nobody knew. However, the master did not have the inclination to not talk. Edward understood, after joining the group, that his master told one person, and that person told another. This meant that people changed their way of acting. Edward was hurt. Edward was angry. Edward was going to be in a group that acted toward him because of something that Edward could not control. Edward thought, if this group was true to its religion, the group would accept Edward if he was a good man. This is what Edward hoped for. This is not what Edward got.

Edward Doty was able to live in peace while he was a servant. Edward had a master who was fair. Edward did not expect more than he got. Edward had something when his service ended. Edward had the ability to think of a wife. Edward understood that he had little prospect. Edward intended to farm and live away from others. This is what Edward hoped for.
(Mar. 18, 2019) Edward Doty was unable to think of his father. Edward knew, because his mother said, that the father was a man with money. Edward thought that his mother tried to find a man to support her. Edward also said this to his mother. This hurt. Edward was ashamed. Edward knew that his father understood.

John Human · Post by **John Human** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:13 pm

I recorded the following at a laundromat in Sumner, Washington this morning between 10:24 am and 10:56 am. The ancestors "spoke" and I typed rapidly as their words appeared in my mind. For some of the men below, their part in this post is a continuation of what they said in the first post on this thread. For others (who didn't speak as part of post #1), it is a continuation of what they said in post #2 (originally recorded earlier than post #1). Once again, four of these men were not on the Mayflower, but they were part of the congregation in Leyden, Holland, and three of the four came to Plymouth by 1623.

(Mar. 21, 2019)
10:24 am James Chilton: James was able to live without any problem. James understood that, because of his religion, James had the ability to be peaceful. This was something that James thanked God for. James understood, because of his way before accepting Jesus, that it was a blessing for James to leave aside a tendency to get angry. James knew, before he was a good Christian, that this was something that could create a serious problem.

10:27 am Philippe De Lannoy: Philippe De Lannoy was unable to live like a man in his own country. Philippe was from a territory that had been conquered. The Netherlands were under Spain. This was seen as a terrible thing. Philippe was now in an independent portion of the Netherlands. War with Spain was always a risk. Philippe understood, if Philippe continued to live where he was, Philippe would likely be taken into the army. Philippe knew, that if he was in the army, Philippe would probably rise to be an officer. Philippe was of a family of noble fighters. This was something that Philippe left behind. Philippe wanted to be part of a Christian community. Philippe understood, because of this, Philippe had to think of leaving. The group that the mother of Philippe helped when they arrived was already familiar. Philippe was present when his sister married a member of the group.

10:30 am John Jenney was able to think, after living in Holland, that John needed to be around other Englishmen. John knew of several churches. John also knew that these churches were of a type that was forbidden in England. John hesitated to join. Instead, John began to attend the service at the Dutch church. This church had a doctrine that was different from the doctrine of the English church. John began to understand the difference. John thought, after careful thought, that the Dutch way was superior. This led John to understand that the English churches in Holland were of the same way. This led John to go to an English church. This is where John met his wife.

10:34 Myles Standish was able to think, after being a soldier in Holland, that Myles was interested in understanding the religion. Myles already had two ways of religion to compare. Myles also had a third. Myles prayed. Myles thought of God being the leader. Myles imagined that this was part of good religion. Myles did not think of joining a church.

10:35 William Brewster did not think, before leaving England, that William would be a famous man. William was the elder of a little congregation. This congregation was not prominent. The people were sober. They were of good repute. They did not have anything to do with the vices of the day. William had to think, because of his church, that William had a special responsibility. William understood, because of what he was able to do, that William had to ensure the survival of his congregation. William knew, when the congregation was discovered, that William had to bring his congregation to Holland without waiting for a good way to settle. This is what William did.

10:37 Edward Winslow had a way of insisting that his family had to be respected. This was not a good thing. Edward had to consider the need for respect of everyone. Edward demanded that his family gave him a privilege. This was often not respected. This led to a feeling that Edward had to be instructed. Edward had to think, later, that his position allowed Edward to be an equal with visitors who were important people. This benefitted Plymouth. Edward was usually chosen to be the host of a visiting man from a foreign colony. This meant that Edward had to be ready to provide. This was an expense that Edward was expected to take care of. The colony had no money.
10:40 John Carver knew, after being in Holland, that John needed to encourage the brother of his wife to accompany the expedition to the New World. John had little trouble in doing this. The mother of the brother and the wife was ailing. She had the ability to say good-bye. The brother of the wife was inclined to stay until her death. She helped her son to understand that the need to preserve and increase the family was more important than the duty of a faithful son. John was pleased. John was saddened when his brother was unable to continue. The ship that accompanied the Mayflower had to turn back. John had hoped that his brother would be included on the Mayflower. But there simply wasnâ€™t enough room.

10:43 am Stephen Tracy was able to arrive in Holland without any difficulty. It was easy to pay a fisherman. Stephen understood that this was routine. There was little effort to stop individual travelers. Groups were stopped.
Stephen settled in Leiden. Stephen was able to think, because of what he believed, that there were others of the same mind. This was not exactly true. Stephen had to go to three different churches. Stephen had to discuss his faith. Stephen found that there were differences. The biggest difference was regarding the way to receive communion. Stephen knew, from reading the Bible, that communion happened every two or three times a year. Stephen did not think of this as something that could be modified. One of the churches decided to offer communion every month. This meant that people could still receive communion two or three times a year. This also meant that people could receive communion more often. Stephen did not think this was correct. A second church thought, because of the strict Bible requirement, people who were away at the time of communion would not be able to participate. This was something that the church had to consider. The people sometimes had travel. Some of the people in the church traveled by water to other cities. This was part of their work. Stepehn understood that this was not something that they could change. Stephen understood, this church would accept that people who were away were not punished or held to be un-Christian if they missed communion. Stephen was concerned. This was something that Stephen understood to be part of regular worship. This had to be something that was insisted on. Stephen did not think that this church was good for Stephen.
The third church had the opinion that the service was as if it were in the time of Jesus and his early followers. This church shared. This was something that Stephen was attracted to. The people were able to live very simply. They did not need separate households. There was a big house with a lot of rooms. This was where most of the people in the church lived and enjoyed fellowship. This is where Stephen became a member. Stephen hoped, before going to the new colony, that Stephen and the people in this shared home would all leave. Stephen began to understand that many of the people would never leave. They were afraid of the unknown. They were inclined to hold onto what they had.

10:51 am Edward Fuller had the ability to think that, because of his station, Edward had little hope. Edward was from a family that once was respected. Now the family was broken. Edward had to simply accept that Edward had no way of getting help as he became a man.

Edward began to go to a church. This church was different from the church that everybody went to. Edward understood, because of the rule of this church, that Edward should not go to the service at the Church that everybody else went to. Edward accepted this rule. Edward was not punished.

Edward had to think, because of his experience, that the rule was not a big problem. But then the enforcement of the rule changed. Edward and others were punished. They had to pay a fine. Edward had no way of paying. This meant that Edward had to work. The work was the payment. Edward already had to work. Edward needed to work for a farmer. This gave food and money. The work that Edward had to do as punishment made a problem for the farmer. This was something that the official did not consider. The official was not interested in any discussion. The official offered prison as an alternative. Edward had to do as he was commanded.

(finished 10:56 am)

John Human · Post by **John Human** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:35 pm

Six men from the larger group had more to say. I began typing what they said at 6:57 pm. I finished at 7:15 pm.

Mar. 21 (again) 6:57 pm

John Jenney knew, when John arrived in Holland, that John should think of finding a wife. John was over 50. John knew, because of what he had done, that John was a good man. John also knew, because of what he had done, that John had used his life in a way that did not help John. John had to think of being very careful. John knew, because of his age, that John had to think of planning. John had to not spend money. John had to save as much as he could. This would allow John to have a family. John had the opportunity to live long enough for his son, if he had a son, to be an adult. This was Johnâ€™s ambition. John knew, because of his situation, that it was unlikely for John to meet a wife of a station similar. John was very fortunate. John met a family. The father was not much older than john. The daughter was old enough to be worried about finding a husband. The daughter was not attractive. This was of no consequence. John knew that finding any wife would be a blessing.

John did not propose. The father of the woman got to know John. John was agreeable. A proposal came from the father. The father understood that John was of a similar station. This was not necessary. This was a pleasant surprise. John believes that the father will speak.

7:02 pm John Carey lived in Leyden. John married a woman from an English family that lived in Leyden. John was unable to marry of his station. This was not a surprise. John was a bastard with a name. This was unusual. This led people to question. This was best not discussed. John had to think of explanations. John began to say that his father lost his estate. This was not untrue. The bastardy meant that the father was unworthy. The father of the father decided. The second son inherited. This was something that the father never imagined. The grandfather was extremely strict. John understood that the grandfather was the first cousin of the father of the mother of John. This was not discussed. John was simply not allowed. John had to leave. John did not have nothing. The family understood that the family existed in John. This was something that John puzzled over.

7:05 pm Myles Standish was unable to live in Holland as an Englishman. Myles was a soldier. Myles had to live as a Dutchman. Dutch always needed soldiers. Myles had some experience campaigning. The Spanish were always threatening. Myles hoped to be able to save enough to find other work. A soldier did not make much. A soldier did not have to have his own house. A soldier often had food. Myles had to provide his own musket. This was part of the responsibility of the soldier. The pay went toward the musket. Ammunition was provided. Myles understood, if Myles lost the musket, Myles would have to replace it. This meant that a man was never without his musket. Losing a musket meant losing his position. Myles was always careful.

7:07 pm Edward Winslow was unable to think of people in the way that they wanted. Edward was an aristocrat. This was part of his knowledge. Edward found himself surrounded by people who were not. This was something that Edward had to accept. Edward had to extend fellowship to people who were not of his class. This was something that Edward had to accept. This was something that Edward never fully accepted. People were aware of Edward and his reserve. This was something that Edward learned to accept. People would accept Edward even when Edward did not accept them.

7:09 pm Stephen Tracy tried to think of what would be the situation if Stepehn did not go to the new colony. Stephen had a wife. Stephen had six children. Stephen knew, if he stayed, there would be constant temptation. The children were learning Dutch. The children wanted to play with Dutch children. Stephen imagined that his family would eventually become as Dutch. This was something that Stephen wanted to avoid. Stephen hoped that he would be able to go to the new colony. Stephen avoided going on the first voyage. This was a blessing. Stephen imagines that his children would have perished. Stephen also imagines that he or his wife might have been bereft.

Stephen did not go on the following voyage. This ship was very full. The people had very little. Stephen understood that there was a plan that went bad. The people expected to bring food. The food was eaten while the people waited for the ship. This was a hardship for the early colony. Stephen was blessed by not having to suffer. Stephen was part of another ship. There were two ships that sailed. Both ships took members of the Leyden congregation. This was something that Stephen expected. Stephen was surrounded by people whom Stephen knew. Stephen also expected that the ship would bring supplies. The ship brought food and tools. Stephen thought, because of the way the ship was planned, there would be little time for the people to grow food. This meant that the food had to last through the winter. Stephen did not have to suffer much.

7:13 pm Edward Doty was of the group of servants. Servants were not expected to help. Servants were expected to obey. Edward obeyed. Edward served. Edward was given his freedom. Edward was given land with the other servants. This was not much. Edward understood. Having a little was more than Edward would have had in England.

Edward had to think that Edward could improve. The colony did not have a good situation. There were people who needed food. The people refused to work. The colony could not refuse to give. Edward resented the people. Edward thought, because they refused to work, they should not eat. Edward did not have a way to explain. Edward simply did not speak.

(finished 7:15 pm)

John Human · Post by **John Human** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:33 pm

Before I continue with the statements just given by six of this Mayflower-related group, I'll share some observations. First of all, it is clear to me that these ancestors are consulting with one another as they tell their stories. Of course they shared many of the same experiences. Second, with this latest collection of story snippets, there is reference to Mayflower passenger Richard Warren and the demon. Richard Warren is also my ancestor but is not part of this group of stories.

The reason is simple: I already recorded the stories of Richard and his wife Elizabeth. (I will post Richard Warren's story forthwith.) When I was 10 years old, in the wake of the death of my mother, I came across some family documents that she had collected, including a garbled reference to descent from Mayflower passengers. This led me, after a couple years, to the discovery that I was descended from Richard Warren. And so I already recorded his story.

I know that these story snippets, as I record and present them, are confusing. My goal for the moment is to present them exactly as I receive them, so that others may have an understanding as accurate as possible about how all this this is coming into my mind. In addition, the question of "verifying" comes up: There is no reason why I couldn't type the stories, as they are presented to me, in the presence of impartial observers.

Eventually I'll collate these Mayflower-related stories so that every snippet by a single ancestor is read in order. In the meantime, to hopefully alleviate others' confusion a bit, here is a list of the dozen men whose stories I am recording, with a brief explanation of who they are.

James Chilton -- Deacon of the church in Leyden, Mayflower passenger, killed early by the demon after arriving at Plymouth.
Philip De Lannoy -- brother-in-law of John Carver, not English, ancestor of my 4th cousin Franklin DELANO Roosevelt, arrived in Plymouth in 1621
John Carey -- father-in-law of John Jenney, member of the congregation in Leyden, did not go to Plymouth.
John Jenney -- married into the Leyden congregation, arrived in Plymouth in 1623, eventually became one of the seven "Assistants to the Governor" who served as magistrates.
Myles Standish -- (everybody knows who Myles Standish is.)
(William Brewster) -- Mayflower passenger, Elder of the church in Leyden and Plymouth. He is not my ancestor: if certain conditions are met, it is possible to communicate with non-ancestors who are related to direct ancestors.
Edward Winslow: Mayflower passenger, from a landed family, remembered for his "aristocratic" temperament.
John Carver: Mayflower passenger, first governor of Plymouth Colony, killed by the demon. His surviving daughter (unknown to historians and genealogists who think John Carver has no known descendants; the daughter's mother -- also a Mayflower passenger -- was the sister of Philip De Lannoy) married a man named Joseph Pryer, and their son married a great-granddaughter of Stephen Tracy (see immediately below).
Stephen Tracy -- member of the congregation at Leyden, came to Plymouth in 1623.
William Bradford -- Mayflower Passenger, chosen Governor after John Carver's death.
Edward Fuller -- member of the congregation at Leyden, Mayflower passenger, killed by the demon.
Edward Doty -- servant of a man who was not a member of the Leyden congregation, Mayflower passenger.
And then there is Richard Warren -- not a member of the Leyden congregation, Mayflower Passenger, he was also one of the Merchant Adventurers who financed the voyage. He secretly taught others how to resist the demon that was slowly killing the settlers during the first winter in Plymouth.

Here is the latest collection of snippets from six men, begun today (March 22) at 12:22 p.m., finished 12:54 p.m.:

(Mar. 22, 2019) 12:22 pm
12:22 James Chilton knew, after the decision to go to America, that James would not live long. James does not know how James knew. James was able, after reflection, to decide that James should not have a significant role in the care of the congregation. James had to think of being feeble, even though James did not think he was feeble. James had to think of helping two or three other young men begin to plan to become a deacon. This is something that James focused on.

James had three men in mind. Philip De Lannoy was one possibility. Philip had good faith. Philip had the incentive to become bonded with the group. Philip had the ability to think clearly about doctrine. James hoped that Philip would be the one. But Philip was not able to continue when the second ship left the Mayflower. This was, in the mind of James, a deep blow. James despaired when the ship had to turn back. All three of the young men were on the second ship. [wave of sadness, with consequent pause in typing]

12:27 pm John Jenney was able to think, as John embarked, that John was going to meet a well-established congregation. John imagined that there was a church that shepherded the entire community. John imagined that the community was respectful and well-behaved. John thought, even though the church at Plymouth did not have a minister, the presence of Elder William Brewster was enough to maintain sound doctrine. John was certain that Elder William Brewster would be able to give an edifying message, even if the message was rather short. John knew that a minister was required to give a lengthy sermon.

John arrived at Plymouth. John despaired. Plymouth had too many people who were not fit. These people did not think that they were part of a community. These people accepted food. They did not work. These people had no reason to be at Plymouth. They simply were there. John understands, because these people were brought in the year after the Mayflower, these people had to be maintained. The group of merchants had sent them. The community had to please this group to have any hope of continued support. John thought, after his arrival, there would not be any way for the original plan to continue. John was unduly pessimistic.

12:32 pm Myles Standish understood, as the ship arrived, that there was a need. The local people were not friendly. There were observations. The people were watching. The people did not want to communicate. Myles observed. Myles looked. Myles eventually found evidence of where the people lived. This was essential. The community had to build a plantation where there were no other people. Myles thinks that it was fortunate that a place was found. If there had been no place, Myles cannot imagine how the ship would have continued. The community simply could not live on the ship. The winter made that impossible.

12:34 William Brewster had the misfortune of being an Elder without a minister. The Elder had a particular function. The Elder had to achieve harmony. The Elder was not responsible for teaching. The Elder was assumed to have a thorough grounding in sound doctrine. This helped Elder correct wayward members of the church. This was something that William Brewster did without any problem.

The minister had the mission of teaching and edifying. This was very different. William Brewster felt the need of the community for edification. The people suffered. The mysterious deaths caused a lack of hope. People without stopped trying to live. William Brewster recalls the example of Richard Warren. Slowly the community learned what Richard Warren knew. The demon who was slowly killing the members of the community could be stopped. This was something that William Brewster discovered after the demon began attacking. William understood that the demon had discovered who was the real leader. Governor Carver was eliminated. William Bradford was not yet chosen. The demon looked and found. William Brewster had already begun to try to imitate what had been explained. This was ineffective. William had no ability to defend himself while he slept. This was a fatal flaw. William had to begin depending on others to protect him as he slept. Slowly, William grew stronger in the new training. This allowed William to persevere, and others were able to try to protect more vulnerable members of the church. William did not think that his family would survive. William did not lose. So many others did.

12:40 pm John Carver did not think, in Holland, that the family of John would be in danger. The event of the voyage was the greatest concern. People survived. After arriving, everything was chaotic. The ship was in the wrong place. John understands that somebody in the decision making decided to secretly direct the ship away from Virginia. This was done without the knowledge of John Carver. John was not chosen to be governor. This was a decision after the Mayflower arrived. John was not part of the early group that made the decisions. John hopes that another will explain. John suspects that ancestors of John [Schmeeckle] are not in this group.

John Carver understands that, because of the situation, the family of John had to forego special treatment. There was not enough. Everybody must suffer. John understood that some had the will to ensure that the Governor was exalted. John said, let that happen in due course. This was well received.
John knew, after the community established itself on land, that there was a terrible crisis. John was aware of the demon. The demon came. People slept. The demon siphoned. John does not know how else to explain. John does know that the result was feeling dispirited. There was a lack of energy. This happened to John and six others. The symptom was simply fatigue. John had to persevere. John had enough resolve to fight and try to make effective decisions. This lasted. John kept his focus until shortly before the end. John did not know that he was being attacked by a demon. This was discovered by Richard Warren. John understands that Richard hid. Richard had the knowledge of how to survive. John understands that Richard did attempt to warn. Richard was unable. John suspects, if Richard had tried, the demon would have attacked. Richard would have been cut down, before Richard was able to train anyone else. John understands, people together can work to resist a powerful demon. John also understands, one man alone cannot resist. The demon is capable of destroying human life. John understands that very few of the demons have this ability. John supposes that the demon received energy from the worship of the local people. John understands. The hostility of the local people was not expressed through attack. The people expected the demon to do the work.

12:49 pm William Bradford. There was a new terrible problem, after Plymouth was established. William had discussed this before. William understands that John will give this story. William will add to what William said before. William was unable to think, as the demon consumed John Carver, that William would be chosen. Richard Warren helped William. William has to think, this was an important part of why William was chosen. The Governor had to be able to resist.

12:51 pm Edward Doty understands, because Edward already spoke about the demon, there will be no need. Edward had the experience of being safe. Edward knew. The demon was searching for leaders. The demon also killed the family of a leader. Edward thinks, the demon had difficulty choosing. Three men were killed. One was a leader. Then the demon began to target others. Edward then understood, anyone could be at risk. Edward did not know at first. Edward thought later about who died. This made Edward afraid. The demon could make a mistake. If the demon targeted the master of Edward, then Edward could also be a target. Edward thought, if this happened, Edward would be helpless. Edward hoped, because of his low station, there would be safety. Edward understood, when one other told Edward how to begin training, there was hope.

(finished 12:54)

John Human · Post by **John Human** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:09 pm

Richard Warren

(Aug. 31, 2018) Richard Warren was a man who had a noble lineage. Richard Warren didnâ€™t think much of this. Richard Warren understood, because of his lineage, that he had opportunities that others didnâ€™t. This was something that Richard Warren failed to take advantage of.

Richard Warren became a Christian. This meant that Richard Warren was in a church that accepted the Bible. This meant that Richard Warren was unable to be in the Church of England. This meant that Richard Warren was at risk. (Richard Warren will now refer to himself as Richard.) Richard knew, if he was discovered, his ability to be a successful merchant would be destroyed.
Richard understood, after the births of his daughters, that he had to plan for their marriages. This meant that Richard had to think of leaving London.
Richard was able to be accepted. In London, people didnâ€™t ask about religious opinions. People understood that there were many different religious opinions. This meant that people understood that, in order to cooperate, it was important to not talk about religion.

Richard was able to be in a group of merchants. This group accepted people with Christian belief. This was important. Richard understood, after a group of Christian exiles wanted to make an arrangement to go to the New World, that he could think of joining the group. This is what Richard discussed with his wife.

(added Sept. 5, 2018) Richard Warren made a plan. Richard knew, if he was one of the members of the merchant group, Richard would be able to claim a large amount of land instead of profit. Richard understood that most of the members of the group would stay in London. The would trade with the settlement. They would be receiving profit from the goods that the settlement sent back. Richard would not receive any of this profit. He would get land, which he could use as dowry for his five daughters. This plan was accepted by the merchant group.

(Aug. 31, cont.) Richard understood, after hearing his wifeâ€™s opinion, that this would be a dangerous attempt. Richard had to find a way to give inheritance to his daughters. This meant that Richard had to think of giving to his daughters when they married. Richard had no sons. This meant, if Richard didnâ€™t have any sons, that Richardâ€™s daughters would also inherit any land that Richard owned. Richard owned a house. Richard did not own any other land. Richard understood, if he had a son and if he provided for his daughters, there would be very little for his son.

(Sept. 4, 2018) Richard Warren wasnâ€™t a good (passenger). Richard Warren was unable to stay on his feet. This made another man laugh. This was something that Richard was inclined to not forget. However, the man was not contemptuous. This made Richard set aside his feeling. And there was no further problem.

(Sept. 5, 2018) Richard understands that the story of the boat that left the Mayflower as it arrived in Cape Cod is remembered. Richard wants to share his memory. Richard was not eager to be chosen. However, Richard understood that he was a representative of the merchant group. This meant that Richard had an obligation. Richard accepted the responsibility. Richard was not able to be a good oarsman. However, Richard made a point of trying.

(Sept. 9, 2018) Richard got to Plymouth, along with the other passengers, at the end of the season. This meant there was no chance to plant food. This meant there would be a long, cold winter. There was no chance to prepare. All of the work that should have been done beforehand now had to be done as it was cold and rainy and then snowy. This was a terrible hardship. People [would die in the cold, and people did not have enough clothes to wear. The problem for Richard was that people were expecting Richard to be one of the leaders. The settlers had thought that they would be able to work in the spring and have crops to harvest in the fall. But the tripâ€™s departure got delayed and delayed, and eventually it became clear that people would be left in a new land where there was no food.

People started dying. It wasnâ€™t because of the cold. It wasnâ€™t because of lack of food. There was still enough food for people to work. Something just caused people to die. People did not know. It was a mysterious sickness that didnâ€™t really have symptoms. People just got weak, and weak, and died. Richard Warren remembers people not knowing who would be healthy the next day. Richard stayed healthy, and Richard prayed every day. Richard knew he must stay alive, because his wife and daughters depended on him for the family livelihood. Richard persevered, and Richard buried many of his fellow church members.

(Sept. 26, 2018) The pilgrims were under the impression that there was not any way to survive. Richard knew that the disease could be conquered. Richard was able to guide two men. Richard dealt with the source. Richard understood that the source was not physical. Richard also understood that there was a way to combat it. Richard had chanced upon the way as he struggled. This is why he was able to save two men. Richard could not tell everyone. Richard understood that, if he did that, the source would identify him. Richard was very cautious. The two men were also cautious. One of them was able to tell one other man. This made it possible for the colony to be not completely lost.

--
Other Mayflower passengers remember the sickness:
â€œJames Chilton was killed by a demon. James knew that the demon was with the Indians. James also knew that the demon saw the Englishmen as a threat. James tried to talk to the demon. The demon was very clear. The demon had to eliminate the settlers. James hoped that the demon would not be able to kill everyone. James understood. The demon had to focus one by one. There was time. James also understood: The eldest settler should be sacrificed so younger settlers would have a chance to resist. James understood: Richard Warren knew how to teach others how to protect themselves. James also understood: If Richard Warren was discovered teaching others, then the student would be a priority for the demon to kill.â€�

â€œWilliam Bradford became governor because a demon killed the original governor. The demon continued killing. William was young and was not a target at first. William knew that Richard Warren had the ability to resist. Richard had to be careful. William knew, because the demon was trying to kill important people, that Richard had survived. Richard got ill briefly and then recovered. William grew close to Richard and discovered that Richard was teaching others. William was able to learn and survive.â€�

Edward Fuller: â€œEdward Fuller was not a prominent member of the congregation. Edward was simply a member. Edward was unable to live beyond the first winter.â€�

Rose Angouleme, wife of Edward Fuller: â€œRose had a mission, to protect the life of her son Samuel. Rose understood that people were being killed by a demon. Rose also understood that there was a way to resist. Rose knew that the demon had to focus one by one on people. Rose knew that Richard Warren knew how to protect himself. Rose made sure that her son was near Richard Warren.â€�

Samuel Fuller: â€œSamuel Fuller understood what his mother did. Samuel was required to be separate from his parents. Samuel had to not communicate with them. Samuel had to be very careful. Richard Warren had to carefully instruct people so they were able to resist before the demon discovered that they were learning.â€�
--

(Sept. 30, 2018) Richard was able to help after the end of the time of death. Richard knew how the death had happened. Richard also knew that the cause had not left. Richard had to instruct the people. Richard had been the first to be successful in resisting. And Richard was the leader of this effort. Richard understood, if he was to be successful, Richard had to convince all of the colonists. One single colonist who didnâ€™t accept the need would be fatal. Richard had a hard time doing this. Richard will tell the story another time.

(Sept. 10, 2018, told out of order) Richard Warren will tell about what happened after the first winter, when so many people died. In the springtime, the people were very weak. There was enough food, because there were fewer people. Richard Warren knew that it was necessary to grow food. The settlers had seeds, but the settlers did not have the strength to begin to prepare the fields to plant the seeds. Richard Warren was able to work. He was among the stronger settlers, because he had not suffered from the sickness. Richard Warren knew that, for the first time in his life, he had to live as a farmer. Richard Warren was resigned to this. Richard knew that everyone needed to help. Richard prepared the field and planted the seeds, and food grew. Later, Indians arrived. Indians began to communicate, which was a surprise. Richard understood that the Indian who knew a little bit of English was not hostile.

(Oct. 2, 2018) Richard was unhappy when a new ship arrived. The new ship had more people. The new ship had no food. Richard was aware that the people were not to blame. The people had been told that food would be brought. But the food was not loaded onto the ship. The people were tricked. They arrived and needed to be fed. Richard understood that this meant a crisis. There was simply not enough. Richard thought that, because he had become one of the leaders, that he had the responsibility to eat less. Richard understood that, through the winter, this would be a terrible problem. Richard needed to keep his strength. Richard also needed to be able to follow the rule that nobody would eat more than anyone else. Richard suffered.

John Human · Post by **John Human** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:12 pm

(Mar. 24, 2019)
10:03 a.m. Philip De Lannoy is able to think, after all the time, that Philip had a new thinking for his people. Philip did not, when Philip joined to group that went to America, have the same way. Philip had to think, because of his difference, there was not any way for Philip to be in the leadership. Philip did not understand that the Elder imagined that Philip could be a deacon. Philip left on the second ship with the Mayflower. Philip did not have the opportunity to get to Plymouth. Philip might not have survived.

Philip returned to England. Philip was not able to return to Holland. Philip and the other passengers had to make do. There was little. The passengers shared. There was enough. Philip was able to find work. There was need for laborers. Philip did not complain.

10:07 a.m. John Carey. There was a way for John Carey to not have problems. John had to not insist that his name was worth respect. John had to think, because of his family, that John needed to earn respect. John had to be able to make a good name for his family. John also thought, because of his situation, that people would forget that John had a good family. John hoped, because of what happened when he was born, that his family would not have a negative impression. John imagined, because of his thought of being a good man, that eventually John and his family would be recognized as cousins. This was the great ambition that John had for his family.

10:09 Myles Standish. There was not any work for Myles at the beginning. Myles understood. There would need eventually. A new colony attracted people. Some of the people were not good. Myles would have to ensure that people obeyed.

Myles had little fear of the Indians. Myles understood. The Indian who spoke English described. The Indians had lost many people. They had more land than they needed. They had no will to fight. Myles understands, the few Indians were not able to give sufficient (energy) to the demon. This meant that the demon was limited. It could kill. And then it had to wait. The Indians had to give energy through a ceremony that helped the demon. This was what Myles understood to be Pagan religion. Myles did not think that the Indian religion was in service of a god. It was simply practical.

10:13 William Brewster. There was never any doubt in the mind of William Brewster that John Robinson would come to Plymouth. This was certain. This was a man of his word. William was confident that each ship would bring the minister. William was bitter each time the minister failed to arrive. William had no understanding of why the minister did not come. William now understands that the minister did not want to leave a majority for a few. William understood, when William came, that the majority would also come. But the people had disagreements with the merchants. The merchants did not want to bring all the people. The merchants wanted there to be people who were not part of the congregation. William does not understand why. This led to terrible problems. The merchants did not have any idea of what they caused.

10:16 William Bradford did not think, at the beginning, that William would be governor for many years. William accepted the responsibility. William gained the respect of the people. The people had little desire to change. William, in later years, insisted that other men have the opportunity to be governor. This meant that the colony would have other experienced men. William was able to act without being governor for six years. But all of the other years, William had to be Governor. This was not a deep trial. This was something that had a reward. William had the ability to think of what was good and act.

10:19 Edward Doty did not think, with all the things that Edward did, that Edward would be remembered as a good man. Edward thought of himself as a good man. Edward had a problem. Edward knew that respect was not for Edward. Edward had a need. Edward did not think that anyone in the colony would be open in disrespect. Edward was insulted by a man who had no reason. The man simply was of a bad disposition. Edward was unable to not respond. The man called Edward a bastard. Edward was compelled to act in a way that made it clear that open dishonor would not be accepted. The way was a duel. The man knew that this might happen. Edward thinks that the man suspected that Eddward would not challenge. Edward challenged. The duel was fought. Edward was not injured. The man was cut. Edward did not try to kill. This was recognized. Edward and the man were forced to sit together in the stocks. Edward did not talk. The man did not talk. The time in the stocks was six hours.

(finished 10:23 a.m.)

John Human · Post by **John Human** » Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:23 pm

Here is the latest "recording" of my Mayflower ancestors. I'm at the public library in North Bend, Washington. I began typing (as six of the ancestors spoke in turn) at 11:15 a.m., and finished at 11:38.

(Mar. 25, 2019) 11:15 a.m. John Jenney. John was not able to think, after arriving, that John and his family could be at peace. There was a community. There were men who were unable to cooperate. John does not think that these men were accidental. John believed and still does, that the merchant adventurers sent unappropriate men deliberately. John does not think that the merchants were concerned about the profit. John thinks, because of what the merchants did, the colony was unable to function. This meant that people were less able to produce. This meant that the colony was dependent. John had to imagine that someone among the merchants thought that this was a good thing to do.

11:18 a.m. Myles Standish. it wasn't long, after the first winter, until Myles was called to act. Myles had to go to a group of Indians. There had not been any contact. There had to be contact. The Indians had to be able to work with the colonists. If the Indians were not willing to communicate, there would be a problem. Myles Standish took seven men. The men were chosen to be able. Six of them were young. Myles did not want to take a leader. However, a leader had to be among them. Richard Warren was the leader who went.

Myles did not think, as the group set out, that there would be a big problem. Myles was aware, ever since the end of the winter, that the Indians were timid. The Indians had expected their demon to take care of the settlement. However, the demon failed. This meant, the Indians had little power. Myles understood, if Myles acted bold, the Indians would assume that Myles and his men had more power than they really did.

11:22 a.m. John Carver. There was never any doubt, after the first winter, that John Carver had been able as governor. John understands, because of the situation, there was no way for a proper burial. A governor should be buried with solemn ceremony. This was simply impossible. John Carver knew, because of his relationship with the other colonists, that there would have been a proper ceremony. However, John understood. There simply was no way.

11:24 a.m. Stephen Tracy. Stephen did not think, after arriving, that there was anything that Stephen could do. The colony was different from what Stephen imagined. There were men who did nothing. These men were simply in the way. The colony gave food. The men ate. Then the men acted. The men were together. They acted in ways that were not appropriate. THe men thought, if the colony continued to give food, the men would stay. Stephen remembered a verse from the Bible. If a man will not work, do not give him food. This was argued among the colonists. The men understood. This was a threat to their food. Stephen was uncomfortable. The colonist who opposed this view was popular among the men. This meant that Stephen had an enemy. Stephen did not think of the man as an enemy. The man was part of the church. The man had a good heart. The man simply could not refuse to give.

11:27 a.m. William Bradford. William had to think, after the arrival of the men who would not work, that there would be a way to ensure the well being of the men without the colony being under obligation. William had to think of these men going to another settlement. This was agreed among the colonists. The men had no say. The men understood. They would be sent away. They would have the opportunity to grow food. They would not be allowed to starve while food was growing. This plan was put into action. The men went. William Bradford had to think, after this, that there would be a problem. The men were alone. They had no women. There was no one to discipline them. This meant, any untoward event among these men would be brought to the colony. This is exactly what happened.

William had to think, when two of the men approached, that there was a problem. The men were at the settlement. They were beginning to clear a field. This meant that they had a sense of what was necessary. However, three of the men refused. William had to think of how the men could or should act. William had to think, because of the problem, that one of the men had to become a leader. This was suggested. The men did not accept this thought. The men understood that they should not have a leader. This way, they could all be as one. If a leader was chosen, there would be a sense of the leader being above the others. This was the decision that was overturned when the two men returned to the others.

William did not hear for a while. The men had no intention of reworking their agreement with the colonists. This meant that the men had to hope to not have a problem. This was unfortunate. William thinks, if the men had a leader, they would not have any way to complain if the leader punished. However, William understands that this was exactly what the men were avoiding.

11:35 a.m. Edward Doty. Edward had to think, after the end, that Edward was able to continue. Edward died. Edward felt a separation. Edward was able to talk. Edward had three daughters. The daughter who talked the most was the youngest. Each other daughter talked from time to time. This was something that Edward had to accept. The children were very busy. Edward thinks, John is the same way with his father. Edward hopes that John will find more time to communicate with his father.

(finished 11:38)

John Human · Post by **John Human** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:05 am

(Mar. 26, 2019) 5:40 p.m. James Chilton. There was never any circumstance worse than the realization that James was being attacked. James understood that Edward Fuller died. There was no reason. He simply got weak. Then he died. James thought, as Edward died, there had to be a reason. There was something about his death that nobody was able to explain. James thought, because of the situation, Edward would not mind if James examined him. Edward was reluctant. It is improper for a man to touch another man. However, the situation was not a normal one.

James asked Edward to allow James to check throughout his body. James omitted the private parts. This was something that James had to risk. If a sign was there and nowhere else, James would simply not notice. James began at the head. James was able to instantly notice. The ear of Edward was inflamed. There was something about the ear that James realized had to be related to what was the problem. James had to imagine that something irritated the ear while harming Edward. James then proceeded. In Edward neck James observed a swelling. James suspected that this might not be related. James continued. There was another swelling in the third area of the gut. James wanted to probe. Edward asked James to let Edward. Edward then did so. Edward was very weak. Edward understood that there was something in the gut. Edward did not think that it was related to his illness.

James had to think, because of the ear, that this was what had to be investigated. James hoped that Edward might try to protect his ear. Edward was reluctant to do that. Edward said, the ear hurt. This was only confirmation that James had found something related to the illness.

5:47 p.m. Philip De Lannoy was able to think, when he was well established, that the early time was not a terrible hardship. However, during the early time, there was a constant feeling of being unable. The community struggled. The community did not think it had a good chance of surviving. This was the situation until the arrival of two ships. This happened two years after Philip arrived. Philip understands that the community in Leyden finally arranged for more of the congregation to come to Plymouth. This was a source of great joy. This helped reduce the problem of the men who wouldnâ€™t work. Philip understands, after the men left, the community was almost as a congregation. However, Philip did not think that Philip was well received. Philip was a foreigner. There were three men who treated Philip like a man who had no relation. This was difficult. The three men did not think of what they did. Philip simply had to endure. Philip had no thought of becoming a deacon. Philip did not imagine that would be possible. However, a man suggested to Philip that Philip might be suitable. This was a great surprise. Philip did not encourage. The man did not speak again.

5:52 p.m. Myles Standish did not think, after the men who wouldnâ€™t work were removed, that there would be a serious problem. However, a minister arrived. This minister thought that he would be chosen. This gave a great difficulty. The minister was able. He was of a similar way of thinking. He did not think that he was undeserving. The community did not think that he was unworthy. However, the community was assured that their minister would be coming. This meant that the community should not choose another. The community asked the minister to accept a temporary position. The man was angry. He thought that this showed disrespect. The man insisted. The congregation was appalled. This type of attitude was not Christian. Myles thought, the man acted like he was possessed. Myles had to wonder. Was there another demon? Myles never got an answer. The man eventually left.

5:55 p.m. William Brewster will tell the story of what happened. The minister was able to present himself as godly. He was also able to present himself as worthy to lead a congregation. William was unable to encourage. William, as mentioned, knew that Minister Robinson would be coming. The man was unwilling to accept. This gave William a feeling. William had to think of something being very wrong. The minister was indeed able. The minister was of all appearances a godly man. Why did the minister act so inappropriately? William had to investigate.

William understood, from the time of the demon, there was the possibility of demons infesting the congregation. This possibility was something that William had to be extremely cautious about. A demon could not be expelled. William understood, before leaving England, that ministers often had training to expel demons. This was something that the colony did not have. This was a reason why William was very reluctant to investigate. If there was a demon, and it chose to take William as its (host), there would be a terrible crisis in the church. William did not investigate.

The minister decided, after a time, to leave. The minister had been invited to speak at the Sunday service. This happened before the minister received word that he would not be called. After, he intended to speak again. William had the responsibility to examine the speech. This proved to be a denunciation of the congregation. William had to say to the minister that he was not welcome. William suspects that, if the minister had been allowed to give the speech, there would be great harm. William had to forbid the minister from speaking. The minister was incensed. This was on more example of Williamâ€™s suspicion.

6:03 p.m. John Carver knew, after he died, that there would be a possibility of continuing to observe. This depended on his daughter not dying. John had to think that the possibility of his daughter dying was not as high. John knew, after he died, that a demon had been killing. John, as he died, discovered. The demon accidentally revealed itself. John was able to alert William Brewster. This meant that there was knowledge in the community. This also was used as a reason for the colony to leave. People were inclined to think, if there were demons who could kill people, the colonists would be helpless.

6:06 p.m. Stephen Tracy was able, in the year following his arrival, to participate in a community of the same way as the community in Holland. The people shared. There was common food. There was often a feeling of one big family. This is what Stephen wanted to experience. This was something that Stephen discovered had been lacking. There were not enough members of the community in Plymouth until the ship with Stephen and one other ship arrived. This meant, if Stephen had come earlier, the community would not have been a good one. Stephen had to imagine that he made the right choice.
(finished 6:09 p.m.)

--

Mar. 27, 2019
James Chilton
Philip De Lannoy
John Carey
John Jenney
Myles Standish
William Brewster
Edward Winslow
John Carver
Stephen Tracy
William Bradford
Edward Fuller
Edward Doty

8:03 a.m. Philip De Lannoy. There was never any doubt that Philip was a good and faithful member of the congregation. Philip had the advantage of having been with the congregation in Holland. This made other people aware that Philip was one of the early congregants. This made people uneasy. Philip was never recognized. Philip understood. One man exclaimed, â€œThere should be a way to encourage a member who was with the congregation before coming to Plymouth!â€� Philip thanked the man. Philip simply continued as he was. Philip knew, in this world, sometimes reward is deferred. Philip had no trouble with his station.

8:05 a.m. Myles Standish was interested in the thought of how the Indians communicated. Myles understood that there were six small groups. These groups were not warlike. They did not have a ritual of going to other settlements and killing to become a man. Myles was aware that some Indian tribes had this practice. This meant that there was ongoing strife among Indians. There had to be a way of preventing this custom from becoming established. Myles suspected, because of the failure of the demon, there would be an inclination among the Indians to find another way to fight.

8:08 a.m. William Bradford. It was not clear, at the beginning, if William would continue as governor. William expected older men to arrive. This meant that more experienced men would have to be respected. William thought, at the beginning, his position was temporary. William was ready to gladly hand it to another. William never had the opportunity.

William was relieved when two ships arrived in 1623. William understands that John Jenney and Stephen Tracy were on one of these ships. William also understands, because of the increased number, it was difficult for the community to share as they had before. This meant that William had to accept the intention of people to set up their own homes. This was done without any difficulty. There were groups in sizes that would encourage the practice of sharing. This was all that William could achieve. The idea of an entire congregation living harmony had to be set aside, for the practical need of people to have privacy when they slept. William understood, husband and wife needed separate space. This was not a problem in Holland. The big building had many rooms. William imagined being able to construct such a building. William understood, the tools to do so were not at hand.

8:13 a.m. Edward Fuller. Edward had the inspiration, as Edward was dying, to think, if Edward had the ability to exactly explain his disease, there would be an ability to prevent it from spreading. Edward thought, if Edward was able to have company as Edward died, there would be someone who was able to perceive Edwardâ€™s thoughts. This was something that William Brewster did not object to. Edward understood, the time was drawing near. Edward also understood, the problem with his ear had been noticed. This meant that the ear began to recover. Edward was surprised. This made it seem that the ear was not the true source. The ear was a receptacle. Edward began to wonder if something was now going in through the other ear.

Edward asked a member of the community to look at the two ears. The member observed. Edward was told that, now, there was a mark on the other ear. Edward had a suspicion. There was something that was causing Edward to become weak. Edward understood that Edward had little opportunity to recover. Edward had become too weak. Edward also understood, because of the discovery, another person might be able to find the cause. This was all that Edward could do. Edward died.

8:16 a.m. Edward Doty understood, after being in Plymouth for most of his life, Edward Doty would never be accepted. Edward was simply not of the group. This was something that Edward resented. Edward thought, because he had been with the group from the beginning, and because Edward had confessed his faith, there should be a way for the community to accept that Edward was part. This was never felt. Edward simply had to accept that the fellowship that was commonly shared would not be extended. Edward simply went to the Sunday service and worshipped. Edward prayed for the strength to not express resentment.
(finished 8:18 a.m.)

John Human · Post by **John Human** » Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:37 am

After I recorded the thoughts of William Bradford, three others who had not thought of speaking this time also shared.

(Mar. 28, 2019)
6:54 p.m. Edward Doty had a way to encourage his children. Edward was aware that his children understood that Edward was not a man who was respected. Edward had to encourage his children to think of the teaching of Jesus Christ. Edward was not a very religious man. Edward understood the basic ideas. Edward did not think. Edward simply accepted.
Edward Doty told his eldest son that Jesus would respect a man who was honest. This was all that Edward had to say. Edward was pleased to understand that his son was influenced by what Edward said. Edward believes, after the second generation, Doty was of the same level as other Old Comer famiies.

6:57 p.m. William Bradford. There was never any doubt that the man who was unable to come would come. William understands that William Brewster has already spoken. William understands that there is an idea that this happened. William suspects that people do not have any idea how this affected the people. William had to think, after realizing that the pastor who promised to come would never come, that William was in a foreign land on a false promise. William would never have left if the pastor had not made that promise. The pastor was of the leading voices who insisted that the people needed to leave. The pastor had to be among the early settlers. William believes that the pastor understood that the settlers had too many problems. William does not know. William only knows, when the son of the pastor came to Plymouth, he was not well received. The son of the pastor explained. He said that his father had planned. His father had decided. Then a change happened. Several people who were uncertain decided to stay in Holland. This meant that these people would not be supporting the congregation if the pastor decided to go to Plymouth. The pastor had to make a difficult decision. The congregation was poor. It depended on financial support from four men who were not part of the congregation. These four men were inclined to be benefactors. Two of the benefactors imagined going to the New World. William understands, because of one of the two, the pastor decided not to go. The man said that he would not continue to support the congregation unless the pastor agreed. The man insisted that the pastor stay. The man insisted that the congregation not give up the big house with many rooms. The man was able to think that he could make an arrangement with the owner. The owner wanted to be in control. The people who lived in the big house wanted to make changes. The owner expected, eventually, the congregation would leave. The benefactor wanted to ensure that the people stayed. The benefactor had to make an arrangement with the owner. The owner had to accept that people could make changes, and the benefactor would reimburse the owner if the owner wanted to change things back after the congregation left. This was part of the negotiation.
The pastor understood that the benefactor had acted to ensure that the congregation had a stable home. This was gratefully received. William imagines that, because of this, the pastor felt obligated. William suspects, if he is not mistaken, that the pastor felt guilty about not going to Plymouth. However, his leaving would mean that the congregation would likely be turned out of the home. William supposes that the owner did not have any reason to turn out the congregation. William suspects that the owner understood that he had a way to make more money if the congregation left. This is all that William understands.

7:08 p.m. William Brewster. There has been a story of the pastor. William does not have anything to add. William had to accept, bitterly, that the pastor would not come. William had to inquire what did God want with the congregation. William had to imagine that somehow, there was a purpose. [My suggestion: the purpose of Plymouth Colony was to give its church order to the Massachusetts settlers when they arrived in 1630.]

7:11 p.m. Edward Winslow. There was another issue when it was learned that the pastor would not come. Edward understood. There was going to be a terrible difficulty finding a pastor. Edward suspects that the colony would never have arrived if it had known that the pastor would not come.

Edward was part of the group in the colony that thought that, in the absence of a pastor, the Elder should preach. This was accepted. William was not obliged. William was burdened. William had to act in a way for which he was never trained. William had to imagine that he would only be temporary. Edward understands, because of the decision, William had to work without pay in a way that was not of his training. Edward, although he had to think of the well being of the whole community, also had to think that William was not being well treated. Edward had no way of thinking anything else. William did not complain.

7:16 p.m. Myles Standish did not have any great feeling when the news arrived that the pastor would not be coming. Myles understood. There was a situation that prevented a promise from being kept. Myles supposed. This was something that could not be explained in a letter. Myles was not a member of the church. Myles went to every service. Myles prayed. Myles never had a conversion experience that was required. Myles simply did not. Myles was not perturbed by this lack. Myles thinks that Myles was a good man. Myles also thinks, Myles gave a good example to his children. Two of his children became church members.

7:20 p.m. John Carver did not think, when John came to the new colony, that John would not survive. John imagines that the death of many of the colonists was part of the decision of pastor. If the colony had not lost so many, there would have been more in the colony than in Holland. This was the reason that the pastor gave. The pastor had a presentable reason. However, John does not think that this reason was enough to set aside a solemn promise.

7:22 p.m. Stephen Tracy understood, when Stephen and his family came, that the pastor would be coming in the next ship. This was understood. There was no doubt. Stephen, although happy in Holland, realized that being with the community was much more important. Stephen would never have gone to the new colony if it wasnâ€™t certain that the pastor would also come.

7:25 p.m John Jenney. John was uncertain about going to the new colony. John understood that there were problems. John also understood that, when the rest of the congregation arrived, there would be a community in fellowship. John did not doubt that the pastor would come. John was not one of the members who lived in the big house. This was for people who had been in the congregation for much longer. John was a new member, and therefore no room was available. John did not feel deprived. John understood, if time went by without a member leaving, John would buy a house near the big house.

7:29 Philip De Lannoy. Philip did not think, after arriving, that the pastor would delay coming. Philip understood, after a year, that there were difficulties with the merchants. This meant that it was difficult to arrange for people to come. Philip also thought, if the pastor wanted, he could make a different arrangement. This was something that Philip considered. Then Philip realized that ships simply did not come. The colony was going to set up a trading station in the north. Philip understood, ships would go there. Philip hoped that Philip would have the opportunity to go. This did not happen. Philip hoped that the minister who came would not stay. This happened. Philip hoped that the pastor would arrive. Philip did not give hope until the news was announced.

(finished 7:32 p.m.)

Debating Christianity and Religion

Communicating with Mayflower ancestors

Communicating with Mayflower ancestors

more of what the Mayflower ancestors say

Richard Warren's story

continuing the stories from my Leyden/Mayflower ancestors

more story fragments from six of the Plymouth ancestors

two days of Mayflower/Plymouth memories

the pastor never came to Plymouth