Is God a killer?

[marco]

If creation reflects, in some way, the great mind of God, then what can we say of the spider gifted with a talent to paralyse prey or the tiger endowed with killer force or the herbivore hippo that kills in fits of irritation or the venomous snake whose kiss is fatal?


What mind conceived such dark horrors? Where was the pity for the billion daily victims in the world he has made for his amusement? Surely there is displayed more horror, more brutality than love when even a simple plant can close its jaws on life and render it null.


So should we deduce God is more killer than kind?

[Tcg]

...God is the artist and the one who ruined his own art. He is the one who cursed his own creation. Not the serpent. Not Adam. Not Eve.

Sorry, I have no reason to think God ruined anything.

Then your argument is with Genesis, not me. According to Genesis, God cursed the serpent and its offspring. God cursed Eve causing her to suffer pain during childbirth. God cursed the earth so that survival would be hard.


God indeed pulled the trigger and cursed his creation.

But it is interesting thing, if you think you are ruined piece of art.

I suppose it might be if I did, but I don't.



Tcg

[marco]

Yeah, but if con artist ruins the piece of art, it is not the artist's product anymore and artist should not be blamed for something that he has not done. If we can blame person who is not guilty, then we could as well blame you, if there is no justice.

That is a huge statement with much truth in it. Those who interpret the gospels and the reported sayings of Christ interpret - presumably sincerely - what they see. If Christ said: "This is my body," then those who believe this is so, in transubstantiation, are BELIEVING in the miraculous power of Jesus, which is hardly maligning him as con artists.

Much of what is reported can have various meanings and to this forum people bring their favourite take on Scripture. Who is to say Malcolm is wrong and Marilyn is right?

I hope you some day understand.

Thank you, 1213, for your patient good will. An old tutor said the same thing to me when I was struggling with tensor calculus, and one day I DID understand. But you do not mean "understand" here. You mean you hope I one day reach your conclusion. Well, for my part I hope you retain your belief since there is something warm and special in the possession of faith, as my sainted mother would tell me. Meantime, when I see a winter garden, I will continue to see a winter garden.

Best wishes.

[1213]

Q: In the case of your particular theology, who is this con-artist, where did the con artist come from, and why was the artist not able to protect the artwork from the con artist?

I think that question is biased. It is like asking �when will you stop hitting your wife?�, from person who is not hitting his wife.

I have no reason to think God is not able to protect, therefore your whole question is meaningless.

But in this case we could for example say God is the artist and Satan the con artist. And Satan is also created by God, in Biblical point of view. In Biblical point of view Satan can’t do anything without God allowing it.

[1213]

… But you do not mean "understand" here. You mean you hope I one day reach your conclusion. ...

Thank you for the otherwise nice words, but I think you should not say what I mean, when you clearly don’t know it. By doing so, you lose credibility. Therefore, I recommend remaining in truth. I meant what I said. So please, no added imaginary meanings.

I don’t think people should come to my conclusion. My conclusion is not necessary the best. I hope people understand well what is said., because then they have good opportunity to come to good conclusion.

Best wishes.

[William]

[Replying to post 33 by 1213]

Q: In the case of your particular theology, who is this con-artist, where did the con artist come from, and why was the artist not able to protect the artwork from the con artist?

in this case we could for example say God is the artist and Satan the con artist. And Satan is also created by God, in Biblical point of view. In Biblical point of view Satan can’t do anything without God allowing it.

So when I asked you "...why was the artist not able to protect the artwork from the con artist? " Your answer is that the artist was able to do so, but chose not to protect the artwork from the con-artist...and the artist also created the con-artist...

Am I following your reasoning correctly here 1213?

As you said in post #21

Yeah, but if con artist ruins the piece of art, it is not the artists product anymore and artist should not be blamed for something that he has not done.

The artist created the con-artist who then ruined the work of art, thus (somehow) the art was no longer the artists, but was now the con-artists.

Yet - the con-artist is also the artwork of the artist...so if the artist created the con-artist, and if also, blame must be allocated, then how do you suppose the artist is free from blame for the ruined art when the artist also created the con-artist ruined the artwork?

[marco]

Thank you for the otherwise nice words, but I think you should not say what I mean, when you clearly don’t know it. By doing so, you lose credibility. Therefore, I recommend remaining in truth. I meant what I said. So please, no added imaginary meanings.

I don’t think people should come to my conclusion. My conclusion is not necessary the best.

I like to think I can read sentences and take an reasonable interpretation, 1213. Here are my words and your reply:

I don't understand how things have materially changed since God first ordered a package of tigers, weasels and sharks. Did Adam make them?

I hope you some day understand.

This suggests that although I don't understand, then perhaps you do and it is to this understanding you pray that I advance. There may be other interpretations of these words but again my understanding is deficient to find them. I certainly wasn't attempting to read your mind, just your words.

If, as you say, your understanding is flawed, as mine is, we are in the same boat and perhaps understanding is beyond human intellect.

Meanwhile we can only go by what we read of God in Scripture, his penchant for killing disobedient humans, and conclude there is a touch of the killer in the God so constructed.
Go well.

[1213]

…The artist created the con-artist who then ruined the work of art, thus (somehow) the art was no longer the artists, but was now the con-artists.

Maybe this could help you to understand:
https://www.google.fi/search?q=restorat ... 3543082247

Is the result of that restoration work of the original artist, or work of the restorer?

Yet - the con-artist is also the artwork of the artist...so if the artist created the con-artist, and if also, blame must be allocated, then how do you suppose the artist is free from blame for the ruined art when the artist also created the con-artist ruined the artwork?

I think person should not be blamed of things he has not done.

[William]

[Replying to post 37 by 1213]

Yet - the con-artist is also the artwork of the artist...so if the artist created the con-artist, and if also, blame must be allocated, then how do you suppose the artist is free from blame for the ruined art when the artist also created the con-artist ruined the artwork?

I think person should not be blamed of things he has not done.

For sure. But the artist created the con-artist. If the con-artist is to blame, then so too is the artist.

[1213]

..For sure. But the artist created the con-artist. If the con-artist is to blame, then so too is the artist.

What would be the reason? That God gave life? I don’t think giving life is bad or wrong.

[ttruscott]

Yet - the con-artist is also the artwork of the artist...so if the artist created the con-artist, and if also, blame must be allocated,

Weird analogy but the artist did not create any con-artist but created everybody able to choose to follow the art of love or the con-art of evil by their free will.

They needed a free will because HE created us to enter the full and holy communion of the heavenly marriage with HIM and no marriage forced upon a person has the full communion of a heavenly marriage; it is base and earthly.

Therefore HE gave everyone created in HIS image a free will and let us all choose, knowing that evil might be created against HIS will but allowing it so HE could find everyone who wanted what HE was offering strong enough to put their faith in HIS claims without proof, wanting it strongly enough to hold their need for proof in abeyance.

PEOPLE chose to be artists in HIS order and PEOPLE chose to be con-artists against HIM. HE needed their free will even though it allowed some to stray.