New Covenant

[tryme]

[PinSeeker]

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing... (Ecclesiastes 9:5)

So they exist, but know nothing as the Bible confirms. They're brain dead, and might as well not exist.

LOL! Those who are perishing (1 Corinthians 1:18) are dead in their sin and therefore have not a care in the world. They think the Gospel foolishness and that they have no need of any "savior,' and become futile in their speculations and their foolish hearts are darkened (Romans 1:21). Therefore, they know not any thing. Yeah, so, continuing in Ecclesiastes 9, those who have died "no longer have a share in all that is done under the sun" -- temporal life. In other words, temporal life is fleeting, like a breath; no one is here long. This is what Ecclesiastes has been about up to this point in the book, and it continues up to its conclusion at the end of chapter 12:

• "The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person. For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil."

"An eternal banishment from the presence of God" is an oxymoron. God is omnipresent or everywhere. So one can not find a place where God is not.

I agree with this; you misunderstand what I mean by being "banished from His presence," which is my fault... let me explain. Yes, God is present everywhere, even in hell; in hell, God is absent in the sense of the absence of His benefits, His benevolence, His graciousness, and so on. Indeed, the person who is most unwelcome in hell is God Himself; as far as the people in hell are concerned, it would be wonderful if God would desert them altogether. Yes, God is present in hell because He is omnipresent, and He’s there in His judgment. He is present in hell as the One who executes His justice on those who are there.

No one can escape the presence of God -- except by their non existence.

Well, right, but in your own words, that would be an escape and thus a liberation, and thus not a punishment.

The Second Death accomplishes this.

Nope. Well, it accomplishes what I'm talking about, sure.

[myth-one.com]

. . . as far as the people in hell are concerned,

What people are in hell?

[myth-one.com]

. . . as far as the people in hell are concerned,

What people are in hell?

Oh, my.

Oh my who?

There are no "people" in hell currently.

Unless by "hell" you mean the grave.

Perhaps you have a "biblical" definition for hell as you do for "death?"

[marco]

[Replying to post 211 by PinSeeker]


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[PinSeeker]

There are no "people" in hell currently.

Oh, but there are. They are not reunited with their physical bodies yet... but, unfortunately, yes, there are.

Unless by "hell" you mean the grave.

No sir.

Perhaps you have a "biblical" definition for hell as you do for "death?"

Well, hell is spoken of many times in the Bible, as well as death. There is a biblical understanding of each.

[myth-one.com]

There are no "people" in hell currently.

Oh, but there are.

WOW, powerful statement!

And everyone should believe it because you say it's true?

Do you have any evidence?

They are not reunited with their physical bodies yet... but, unfortunately, yes, there are.

Definition of people: Human beings in general or considered collectively.

If "they" do not have physical human bodies, they are not humans!

Unless by "hell" you mean the grave.

No sir.

OK, so do you mean the lake of fire bit?

Perhaps you have a "biblical" definition for hell as you do for "death?"

Well, hell is spoken of many times in the Bible, as well as death. There is a biblical understanding of each.

Your "biblical" understanding of death is that it is everlasting conscious life!

You still haven't explained that one:

15. At physical death the unbeliever enters immediately into eternal, conscious separation from the Lord and awaits the resurrection of his body to everlasting judgment and condemnation.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

You have the unbelievers receiving the same reward as the believers -- everlasting life!

[PinSeeker]

And everyone should believe it because you say it's true?

Well, because the Bible, by inferring it, says it's true.

Do you have any evidence?

Biblical evidence, yes; feel free to look back through the thread at any time to reacquaint yourself with it.

You have the unbelievers receiving the same reward as the believers -- everlasting life!

Well, in the sense of not ceasing to exist, yes. But hardly the same; far, far from it.

So long, myth-one. Grace and peace to you, brother.

[myth-one.com]

And everyone should believe it because you say it's true?

Well, because the Bible, by inferring it, says it's true.

Do you have any evidence?

Biblical evidence, yes; feel free to look back through the thread at any time to reacquaint yourself with it.

You have the unbelievers receiving the same reward as the believers -- everlasting life!

Well, in the sense of not ceasing to exist, yes. But hardly the same; far, far from it.

So long, myth-one. Grace and peace to you, brother.

And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. (John 8:32)

That truth is that anyone who does not believe in Jesus will suffer the second death in hell and perish. That is the end of them forever!

Man tends to worship the messengers. Pastors are supposedly trained to know and understand the Bible. Many of these pious, well-intentioned people have doctoral degrees so that we will respect them even more.

They do not mislead us intentionally. They truly believe the myths they teach. Thus, they are as ignorant of the truth as their congregations.

They are cycling. That is, they are teaching exactly what they were taught from their youth. It is what they sincerely believe, not what is in the Bible.

They misinterpret the Bible to meet their predisposed beliefs and are doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing, misleading others by continuing to teach their inherited beliefs. They cannot break the cycle.

Man's true goal is the attainment of eternal life. It is presented throughout the Bible as a gift. All we have to do is accept or reject it. Eternal life is not forced upon all mankind as an accident of birth! It is a gift received after Jesus Christ's Second Coming:

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23)

And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me... (Revelation 22:12)

All we have to do is accept or reject this gift of eternal life:

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: (Deuteronomy 30:19)

You have never successfully supported your belief in man's immortality with scriptures, because it is not supported in the scriptures except for one verse:

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: (Genesis 3:4)

Quote that!

[Checkpoint]

The millennium of Revelation 20 is not a future event. It was when Jeremiah prophesied, obviously, but is not anymore. Or, to be more exacting, it's no longer merely a future event.

Then why do so many believers think of it as yet future only?

[PinSeeker]

The millennium of Revelation 20 is not a future event. It was when Jeremiah prophesied, obviously, but is not anymore. Or, to be more exacting, it's no longer merely a future event.

Then why do so many believers think of it as yet future only?

For at least two reasons, I think:

1. A basic misunderstanding of Revelation as a whole, and the Millennium of chapter 20 included.

2. Many believers (primarily western believers) have bought into the heresy of the "rapture," which came about in the early 19th century. It's not that they are heretics, it's just that that's all they've ever been exposed to.

However, having said that, there is a much deeper reason, and that may be what you're getting at. And it's closely related to -- if not exactly the same as -- the answer to the question you posed to me earlier ("Why, do you think, will it not be resolved?" [Post 200])