This Generation Will Not Pass Away:

[Overcomer]

Jesus talks about the destruction of the temple and signs of the end times in Matt. 24:1-35:

1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 Do you see all these things? he asked. Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. Tell us, they said, when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?

4 Jesus answered: Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, I am the Messiah, and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15 So when you see standing in the holy place the abomination that causes desolation,[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel"let the reader understand" 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now"and never to be equaled again.

22 If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, Look, here is the Messiah! or, There he is! do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

26 So if anyone tells you, There he is, out in the wilderness, do not go out; or, Here he is, in the inner rooms, do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29 Immediately after the distress of those days


the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.

30 Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32 Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Verse 34 has been the subject of many a debate. My questions are as follows:

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

[Imprecise Interrupt]

[Replying to post 449 by JehovahsWitness]

No interpretation, let's let the text speak for itself. What does this mean, in your opinion?

27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Fathers glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.28 Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.

Here we go again, E.J.

Who chose what you now quote as being "the text"?

It is not a text but rather a portion of two texts joined together to make what is an artificial text.

It is the end of one text and the beginning of another text.

Both are therefore out of their own context.

"A text taken out of its context becomes a pretext for a prooftext".

The grace of God and the peace of Jesus be with you.

In my Bible verses 27 and 28 are in the same paragraph. Same paragraph, same subject. The way I read it Jesus was speaking of his 2nd coming in verse 27. How do you read it?

And in 28 he was referring to his contemporary listener, "some standing here".

Jesus still has not returned in judgement with his Father's angels. Are his contemporaries still alive?

Having said this, I see what you mean. I did a little research and yes, some versions have v 27 +28 in different paragraphs. Others, including the ASV, RSV, NRSV, NJB, have the two verses in the same paragraph.

But that would indeed make a world of difference. Was Jesus shifting topics here? Almost like stream of consciousness? Or not.

As Checkpoint noted, paragraph divisions came much later. This is a continuous thought.

All three Synoptic Gospels recount this scene.

Mark 8
38 For whoever is ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him will the Son of Man also be ashamed when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
9:1 And he said to them, Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God after it has come with power.

Matthew 16
27 For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done. 28 Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.

Luke 9
26 For whoever is ashamed of me and of my words, of him will the Son of Man be ashamed when he comes in his glory and the glory of the Father and of the holy angels. 27 But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God.

Each of these ties into the this generation section of the Olivet Discourse.

Mark 13
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, 25 and the stars will be falling from heaven, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 And then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then he will send out the angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.
28 From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts out its leaves, you know that summer is near. 29 So also, when you see these things taking place, you know that he is near, at the very gates. 30 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Luke 21
25 And there will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth distress of nations in perplexity because of the roaring of the sea and the waves, 26 people fainting with fear and with foreboding of what is coming on the world. For the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to take place, straighten up and raise your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.
29 And he told them a parable: Look at the fig tree, and all the trees. 30 As soon as they come out in leaf, you see for yourselves and know that the summer is already near. 31 So also, when you see these things taking place, you know that the kingdom of God is near. 32 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all has taken place.

It is very apparent that the not taste death passages connect directly with the this generation passages. The end of days was supposed to happen before all of those who heard the words of Jesus had died. Mark, Matthew and Luke each add disclaimers about just how soon after the destruction of the Temple (the first sign of the beginning of the end) the end of days would come. Nevertheless this generation plainly refers to those who were alive when Jesus spoke.

As time went on, this no longer seemed credible. Later works focused attention away from it.

Acts 1
6 So when they had come together, they asked him, Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel? 7 He said to them, It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth. 9 And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight. 10 And while they were gazing into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes, 11 and said, Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.

Jesus went up into the clouds and will return in the clouds as per the Olivet Discourse. But dont get a kink in your neck looking for him. Theres a Church to get organized and spread.


John makes only the briefest reference to the end of days, omitting the Olivet Discourse entirely. Instead

John 8
51 Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death. 52 The Jews said to him, Now we know that you have a demon! Abraham died, as did the prophets, yet you say, If anyone keeps my word, he will never taste death.

It is eternal life after death Jesus is talking about here. Not taste death has taken on a completely new meaning.

John 21 (Jesus speaking to Peter)
18 Truly, truly, I say to you, when you were young, you used to dress yourself and walk wherever you wanted, but when you are old, you will stretch out your hands, and another will dress you and carry you where you do not want to go. 19 (This he said to show by what kind of death he was to glorify God.) And after saying this he said to him, Follow me.

20 Peter turned and saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them, the one who also had leaned back against him during the supper and had said, Lord, who is it that is going to betray you? 21 When Peter saw him, he said to Jesus, Lord, what about this man? 22 Jesus said to him, If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow me! 23 So the saying spread abroad among the brothers that this disciple was not to die; yet Jesus did not say to him that he was not to die, but, If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you?

24 This is the disciple who is bearing witness about these things, and who has written these things, and we know that his testimony is true.

The beloved disciple, claimed to be the author of the Gospel of John, is now being referred to in the third person. John, the last link to the living Jesus, has died. But according to this passage, Jesus never said that some of those who heard his words would still be alive when he returned. That was just a misunderstanding. Jesus will come back when he comes back. Until then, keep the faith.

[polonius]

From Paul's Thessalonians:

15 For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will by no means precede those who have died.[j] 16 For the Lord himself, with a cry of command, with the archangels call and with the sound of Gods trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air; and so we will be with the Lord forever.

"God breathed" or not. It just didn't happen.

[Elijah John]

From Paul's Thessalonians:

15 For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will by no means precede those who have died.[j] 16 For the Lord himself, with a cry of command, with the archangels call and with the sound of Gods trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air; and so we will be with the Lord forever.

"God breathed" or not. It just didn't happen.

Jesus, Paul, the unknown author of Hebrews, John the Revelator, "Peter". and James all expected the 2nd coming to occur in their own lifetimes or in the lifetime of their contemporaries. You're right, it just didn't happen. Context favors the conclusion that they were all mistaken in their expectation.

So even if apologists are correct that Matthew verse 16.27 and v 28 are in different paragraphs, context still favors the interpretation that the NT authors including Matthew's Jesus expected the 2nd coming in their own lifetimes or in the lifetime of their contemporaries.

You provided one good verse to support this assertion, and I know of about 16 others.

[Revelations won]

Greetings,

As I stated in an earlier post:

"Why make a beautiful simple statement of Christ into something mysterious?

Did not Christ earlier give strong indication that "John the beloved", might be granted the gift of "translation" so that he might tarry in mortality till the last dispensation?

Why should we fail to recognize that the apostle John was granted the same "translated " state wherein he, like Elijah, would not taste of death?"

As I see it, it does not really matter what anyone's private interpretation may be, the plain and simple truth of what Christ granted to John the Revelatory would serve to fulfill Christ's Divine statement as recorded in scripture.

[marco]

From Paul's Thessalonians:

15 For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will by no means precede those who have died.[j] 16 For the Lord himself, with a cry of command, with the archangels call and with the sound of Gods trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air; and so we will be with the Lord forever.

Were Paul under psychological scrutiny it would hard to find better evidence of insanity than this quotation. Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad.
Probably it was the fall that did it.

[JehovahsWitness]

From Paul's Thessalonians:

15 For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will by no means precede those who have died.[j] 16 For the Lord himself, with a cry of command, with the archangels call and with the sound of Gods trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air; and so we will be with the Lord forever.

Were Paul under psychological scrutiny it would hard to find better evidence of insanity than this quotation.

I don't agree, I see it as an expression of faith.

• Many millions have held the same beliefs as expressed here, some of whom are themselves mental healthcare professionals. If we were, of itself to take belief in an omnipotent God and heavenly life as evidence of insanity, most of the earth inhabitants would be committed including, for many, our own parents, many of our teachers, doctors, scientists, politicians and a fair proportion of those we admire for their rational thinking and loving positive behaviour.

Are you really looking to label so many including many of your fellow posters here on this forum as insane based on an expression of faith?


JW

[marco]

"For the Lord himself, with a cry of command, with the archangels call and with the sound of Gods trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air; and so we will be with the Lord forever."


Many millions have held the same beliefs as expressed here, some of whom are themselves mental healthcare professionals. If we were, of itself to take belief in an omnipotent God and heavenly life as evidence of insanity, most of the earth inhabitants would be committed including, for many, our own parents, many of our teachers, doctors, scientists, politicians and a fair proportion of those we admire for their rational thinking and loving positive behaviour.
[/list]
Are you really looking to label so many including many of your fellow posters here on this forum as insane based on an expression of faith?

I continue to worry that my powers of expression are failing. I cannot see how Paul's silly picture of trumpeting angels, God descending from -presumably - the solar system and getting caught up with dead bodies in some rain clouds ties in with the beliefs of good medical workers and engineers, and perhaps some clever postal workers and sportspeople. Paul has produced extremely vivid poetry, but since he advertises this as fact, then sensibly we question the man's view of reality.

[polonius]

Jesus talks about the destruction of the temple and signs of the end times in Matt. 24:1-35:



What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass

away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

RESPONSE: "This", unless stated otherwise, the present generation, the one to which Jesus belonged.

[Elijah John]

Jesus talks about the destruction of the temple and signs of the end times in Matt. 24:1-35:



What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass

away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

RESPONSE: "This", unless stated otherwise, the present generation, the one to which Jesus belonged.

Yes, and if he were referring to another generation he would have said "that" not "this". That generation.

[marco]

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass

away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

... if he were referring to another generation he would have said "that" not "this" generation.

Had he been writing a treatise, where readers have the chance to examine his words for depth, looking for less obvious meanings would be justified. If he's talking to a group of people he is COMMUNICATING, not wrapping his words in obscurity. His words are spoken AT his listeners, FOR his listeners and there is only one way they can understand them. We are constantly told to take context into consideration but that seems not to apply when it involves concluding Jesus was in error.