The Millennium, the 1000 years of Revelation 20...

[Checkpoint]

This thread stems from the following exchange between myself and Pinseeker:

PinSeeker wrote:

The millennium of Revelation 20 is not a future event. It was when Jeremiah prophesied, obviously, but is not anymore. Or, to be more exacting, it's no longer merely a future event.

Checkpoint asked:

Then why do so many believers think of it as yet future only?

Pinseeker explained:

For at least two reasons, I think:

1. A basic misunderstanding of Revelation as a whole, and the Millennium of chapter 20 included.

2. Many believers (primarily western believers) have bought into the heresy of the "rapture," which came about in the early 19th century. It's not that they are heretics, it's just that that's all they've ever been exposed to.

That's one take from one school of thought.

Your take may be similar or be completely different.

Please share it here, and tell us why you hold that position.

[Checkpoint]

This thread has, for me, been an interesting one.

Hoo, boy. Me, too, man. Me, too.

I am here observing how you, Pinseeker, are responding to what other posters are saying. On two separate themes, which are: the millennium, present or future, and death, what it is and what it isn't.

Just two? Seems like about 8. Or 36. Or 73. These folks are all over the place...

Ehhhh, I'm just havin' a little fun. I mean, it's good for the... soul. (See what I did there?) What else can you do, right? Sorry, fellas. Didn't mean to rile you all up.

Well... maybe I did with myth-one... But with him, I didn't have to try very hard at all...

Something like that.

Even, maybe, something like this:




PinSeeker wrote:

You're opening up a can of worms, Checkpoint. Or maybe a can of... elephants, or great white sharks, or... something... Smile I'm quite sure this will get all kinds of, um, rather interesting responses... Very Happy

Checkpoint wrote

That's ok, Pinseeker, it comes with the territory.

This is, after all, a debate site and a debating forum.

Hopefully, some of us might learn a thing or two, and even realise we don't have all the answers.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 197 by PinSeeker]

Are you suggesting the nephesh in the sea were not fishes in Genesis 1:20?

GENESIS 1:20

And God said, Let the waters swarm with swarms of living souls - Darby Bible Translation

Are you suggesting that nephesh (English SOUL) in the bible does not apply to fish and birds? Is that what you are trying to say? Are you suggesting that (nephesh) SOULS are not physical flesh and blood creatures in scripture?

Not in those particular contexts (Genesis, Leviticus), no.

Are you suggesting there are not numerous other verses that show SOUL to refer to a physical person or animal? How would you define a "soul" from these verses and others? Would you say these verses show a soul to be immortal or motal?

Can you produce any verses that do not depict nephesh (soul) to be a physical flesh and blood creatures or the life enjoyed by such ones?



JW

[otseng]

I say don't. You've already proven your "prowess" at that...

Well... maybe I did with myth-one... But with him, I didn't have to try very hard at all...

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[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 171 by myth-one.com]

What are you talking about? "Jesus did not yet exist?" He said that he came down from the Father, he said that before Abraham was born he existed, the Scriptures say that all things were created through him......With that statement by you, you invalidated everything else you said in that post.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 197 by PinSeeker]

Are you suggesting the nephesh in the sea were not fishes in Genesis 1:20?

GENESIS 1:20

And God said, Let the waters swarm with swarms of living souls - Darby Bible Translation

Are you suggesting that nephesh (English SOUL) in the bible does not apply to fish and birds? Is that what you are trying to say? Are you suggesting that (nephesh) SOULS are not physical flesh and blood creatures in scripture?

Not in those particular contexts (Genesis, Leviticus), no.

Are you suggesting there are not numerous other verses that show SOUL to refer to a physical person or animal? How would you define a "soul" from these verses and others? Would you say these verses show a soul to be immortal or motal?

Can you produce any verses that do not depict nephesh (soul) to be a physical flesh and blood creatures or the life enjoyed by such ones?



JW

It is very clear that the Bible calls both humans and animals "souls." You have provided many links to show this to be true. I haven't seen any post from PinSeeker that makes any sense that would contradict what you are saying. He has been given an excellent opportunity to brush up on the truth of the Scriptures, but apparently declines to do so, and just plows on with his tenuous statements.

I find myself wondering if anyone here actually clicks on your links. I can't help but wonder why they don't.

Your posts are highly refreshing, JW, and the links provide superior information.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 212 by onewithhim]

Thanks OWH. Yes I have had people comment on the content of the links, but I try to keep in mind Jesus words that imply very very few on earth will find the truth in proportion to the billions of humans alive...kind of puts things in proportion.

When it comes to those "rightly disposed" we don't have to find them, they will find us!

JW

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 212 by onewithhim]

Thanks OWH. Yes I have had people comment on the content of the links, but I try to keep in mind Jesus words that imply very very few on earth will find the truth in proportion to the billions of humans alive...kind of puts things in proportion.

JW

And yet, in spite of Jesus' failed prediction, Christianity is the most popular religion on earth.


Nearly a third of all humans alive follow the wide path, somewhere around 2.2 billion. Yes, that certainly puts things in proportion.


Only a handful of us are on the narrow path.



Tcg

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to post 212 by onewithhim]

Thanks OWH. Yes I have had people comment on the content of the links, but I try to keep in mind Jesus words that imply very very few on earth will find the truth in proportion to the billions of humans alive...kind of puts things in proportion.

JW

And yet, in spite of Jesus' failed prediction, Christianity is the most popular religion on earth.


Nearly a third of all humans alive follow the wide path, somewhere around 2.2 billion. Yes, that certainly puts things in proportion.


Only a handful of us are on the narrow path.



Tcg

In the Bible the wide path is the one leading to destruction:

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Let's assume that Matthew considers the "few" that go into life are the Christians.

If a third of the world population claim to be Christians, then 2/3 do not claim to be Christians.

If the one third follow the wide path, then two thirds follow the only other path -- the narrow one.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 212 by onewithhim]

Thanks OWH. Yes I have had people comment on the content of the links, but I try to keep in mind Jesus words that imply very very few on earth will find the truth in proportion to the billions of humans alive...kind of puts things in proportion.

JW

And yet, in spite of Jesus' failed prediction, Christianity is the most popular religion on earth.


Nearly a third of all humans alive follow the wide path, somewhere around 2.2 billion. Yes, that certainly puts things in proportion.


Only a handful of us are on the narrow path.



Tcg

What failed prediction was that? (Do you really think Jesus was wrong about anything? If you do, then why do you say you are on the narrow road?)

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to post 171 by myth-one.com]

What are you talking about? "Jesus did not yet exist?" He said that he came down from the Father, he said that before Abraham was born he existed, the Scriptures say that all things were created through him......With that statement by you, you invalidated everything else you said in that post.

The spiritual bodied Word existed from the beginning:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. (John 1:1-3)

Spiritual beings are different from flesh beings:

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (John 3:6)

Jesus was the Word made flesh.

Jesus was born or made flesh between 6 B.C. and 4 B.C. or 2025 to 2023 years ago.

That is when the man Jesus began to exist.

Any "existence" prior to that point was not as the flesh and blood man Jesus Christ, but as the spiritual bodied Word.