This Generation Will Not Pass Away:

[Overcomer]

Jesus talks about the destruction of the temple and signs of the end times in Matt. 24:1-35:

1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 Do you see all these things? he asked. Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. Tell us, they said, when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?

4 Jesus answered: Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, I am the Messiah, and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15 So when you see standing in the holy place the abomination that causes desolation,[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel"let the reader understand" 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now"and never to be equaled again.

22 If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, Look, here is the Messiah! or, There he is! do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

26 So if anyone tells you, There he is, out in the wilderness, do not go out; or, Here he is, in the inner rooms, do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29 Immediately after the distress of those days


the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.

30 Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32 Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Verse 34 has been the subject of many a debate. My questions are as follows:

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

[marco]

to start i have to say that you are so so wrong with this statement, firstly because you haven't properly read or understood the deeper meaning of the passage

We are all interpreters of words in the passage. An obscure interpretation is not necessarily the "right" one - if there is a right one.

lets look at the verse.

Mathew 24 32 Now learn this lesson from the fig tree:

Jesus wasn't very good with the botany of fig trees, demanding as he did fruit when the fig tree was not in season.

Jesus wasnt talking about the generation that was stood before him

Then he should not have employed the misleading demonstrative adjective "this" which refers to something present. It is an absurdity to suppose ANY of his listeners would have understood this to relate to something millennia beyond them.

this is when the prophetic clock started ticking on may 14th 1948 and this is the generation Jesus was talking about.

Whatever a prophetic clock is, it had nothing to do with the 1st century preacher. Britain's political struggle with Israel, the Balfour Declaration and the ensuing encirclement by hostile neighbours - all these are unknowns to the good Lord.

it has been 71 years since the rebirth of Israel, Jesus was figuretively similating Israel with the fig tree and the generation that was born into the rebirth of Israel will be the generation that will not pass

He may have been figuratively simulating something but it had nothing to do with 20th century politics. The Holocaust ( for which Jesus was indirectly responsible) was of vast significance to Jews but Jesus didn't mention it. Again, "THIS" generation cannot under any stretch of poetic licence refer to Israel two thousand years beyond Christ's utterance. The word "THIS" would make no sense whatsover.

take a little time and read the portion of Mathew in which Jesus speaks of events happening in the world today

Now that you have explained what you think is the meaning, there is no need to "take a little time". We can happily dismiss your interpretation as having nothing whatsoever to do with the words Christ is reputed to have used.

[marco]

Yes, they died after having seen what Jesus said they would see.

True prophecy.

Jesus did not lie.

It is a true prophecy by artificial force. If he were referring to an event soon to occur, then it is silly and misleading to say: "this generation" especially if he's addressing a few followers. Here's a better rendering: "In a few days time three of you here will see me rising into the air, and I shall have with me Moses and Elijah, whom I will identify for you since you cannot be expected to recognise them. I will glow and you will hear voices, showing I am not of this world but from heaven. Is that clear?"

If this odd event did happen in some way it is interesting to speculate how the trick was done.

[Andyb7777777]

Hi Marco,

We are all interpreters of words in the passage. An obscure interpretation is not necessarily the "right" one - if there is a right one.

That is true however if you take those words out of context and do not incorperate all the words of the passage, then the passage will not speak to you as Jesus intended

Jesus wasn't very good with the botany of fig trees, demanding as he did fruit when the fig tree was not in season.

Jesus was using the fig tree as a metaphor, the writer who recorded this event even explained that it wasnt the season for figs, why would he write that if not for a deeper meaning.

Mark 11-14 12 The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. 13 Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. 14 Then he said to the tree, May no one ever eat fruit from you again. And his disciples heard him say it.

Jesus saw a leafed-out fig tree that was barren of any fruit.In Palestine fig trees ordinarily bore the fruit first, then they subsequently leafed out.The unusualness of this tree afforded Jesus the opportunity to teach a lesson that was applicable to the Jewish nation.Israel prided itself on spiritual piety, but there was no fruit demonstrating such.

Then he should not have employed the misleading demonstrative adjective "this" which refers to something present. It is an absurdity to suppose ANY of his listeners would have understood this to relate to something millennia beyond them.

This,They,Them it doesnt matter what adjective is employed here when taken in its fullest context the people of that era would have recognised a multiple prophetic meaning that Jesus was not only talking to them about the present but also the future, the Bible is filled with many passages and prophecies which are built this way which have prophecies within prophecies like a russian doll so to speak.

Whatever a prophetic clock is, it had nothing to do with the 1st century preacher. Britain's political struggle with Israel, the Balfour Declaration and the ensuing encirclement by hostile neighbours - all these are unknowns to the good Lord.

It was prophesied that Israel would be scattered among the nations of the earth because of the peoples wickedness (see Leviticus 26:33; Deuteronomy 4:23"27; 28:25, 37, 64; 1 Nephi 10:12"13; 21:1; 22:3"4). to name but a few verses
return was to be from every nation where they had been dispersed (Jeremiah 16:14"15; 23:3, 7"8; 29:14; 31:7"8), not just Babylon. Over the past 120 years or so, more than 3.5 million Jews have immigrated to the Land of Israel from all over the world"from the north, south, east, and west"in literal fulfillment of Gods promises (Isaiah 43:5"6).

The ingathering of the Jewish people in modern times holds great promise for Israel and for the world, as it heralds the soon coming of the Messianic kingdom. While it is a physical return with many logistical and practical aspects, it is a sacred thing because it is building a platform for the coming of the kingdom of God, when the glory of the Lord appears (Psalm 102:15"16) (Ezekiel 37:26"27: Revelation 21:3).

That the gentiles are called to assist in this process is an amazing and holy thing. Isaiah 66:20 describes the act of gentiles bringing His people home"the people He loves and will use to bless the whole earth"as so sacred it is likened to bringing an offering to the Lord. What a wonderful image depicting the biblical significance of the return of the Jews to their homeland.

He may have been figuratively simulating something but it had nothing to do with 20th century politics. The Holocaust ( for which Jesus was indirectly responsible) was of vast significance to Jews but Jesus didn't mention it. Again, "THIS" generation cannot under any stretch of poetic licence refer to Israel two thousand years beyond Christ's utterance. The word "THIS" would make no sense whatsover.

Psalm 83 1-5 A Song. A Psalm of Asaph. O God, do not keep silence; do not hold your peace or be still, O God! For behold, your enemies make an uproar; those who hate you have raised their heads. They lay crafty plans against your people; they consult together against your treasured ones. They say, Come, let us wipe them out as a nation; let the name of Israel be remembered no more! For they conspire with one accord; against you they make a covenant"

Psalm 102:1-3
"Hear my prayer, O LORD, and let my cry come unto thee. Hide not thy face from me in the day when I am in trouble; incline thine ear unto me: in the day when I call answer me speedily. For my days are consumed like smoke, and my bones are burned as an hearth."

Surely the last line of this passage reminds us of the horrors of the Holocaust and the death camps where prisoners were thrown into the crematoria?

While the phrase "like smoke" appears in the KJV, and most of the modern translations as well, the original Hebrew

"For consumed in smoke have been my days,
And my bones as a fire-brand have burned.

and Jesus certainly referered to Israels future troubles not only in the gospels but also in revelation

Now that you have explained what you think is the meaning, there is no need to "take a little time". We can happily dismiss your interpretation as having nothing whatsoever to do with the words Christ is reputed to have used.

And with the greatest respect that is your opinion to have as i hope you respect that i openly dismiss your interpretation as unspiritual and without understanding of the deeper truths of Gods word.

[polonius]

It's important to recognize that the gospels were written 40- 65 years after the death of Jesus by non-witnesses who wanted to support a new religion. Although literate, Jesus wrote nothing himself.

I wonder why?

[Checkpoint]

Yes, they died after having seen what Jesus said they would see.

True prophecy.

Jesus did not lie.

It is a true prophecy by artificial force. If he were referring to an event soon to occur, then it is silly and misleading to say: "this generation" especially if he's addressing a few followers.

What is artificial is the joining together of "some standing here" with "this generation", as if they are the same.

As you put it, "it is silly and misleading" to do so.

[marco]

Yes, they died after having seen what Jesus said they would see.

True prophecy.

Jesus did not lie.

It is a true prophecy by artificial force. If he were referring to an event soon to occur, then it is silly and misleading to say: "this generation" especially if he's addressing a few followers.

What is artificial is the joining together of "some standing here" with "this generation", as if they are the same.

As you put it, "it is silly and misleading" to do so.

Yes it would appear there are no winners. Christ's words remain opaque unless we concede he was wrong about the end of the world being nigh. Christ had a sense of the dramatic and engineered his own undoing probably thinking he'd be back soon. His words suggest that is what he thought. If, however, he was referring to an event about to happen, an event he could foresee, then his was a bad choice of words, else we would not be debating the meaning. It would have been useful to have had an apostolic footnote so that we could have had their assessment of Christ's mysterious pronouncement.

[Revelations won]

Dear Marco,

It appears that you have not read my previous answer to this statement by Jesus Christ.

John the beloved did not die, but was translated in like manner as Enoch or Elijah. As I understand it he will remain in that state and not taste of death until the second coming of Jesus Christ.

Kind regards,
Revelations won

[polonius]

Jesus talks about the destruction of the temple and signs of the end times in Matt. 24:1-35:

1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 Do you see all these things? he asked. Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. Tell us, they said, when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?

4 Jesus answered: Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, I am the Messiah, and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15 So when you see standing in the holy place the abomination that causes desolation,[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel"let the reader understand" 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now"and never to be equaled again.

22 If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, Look, here is the Messiah! or, There he is! do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

26 So if anyone tells you, There he is, out in the wilderness, do not go out; or, Here he is, in the inner rooms, do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29 Immediately after the distress of those days


the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.

30 Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32 Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Verse 34 has been the subject of many a debate. My questions are as follows:

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

RESPONSE: "this" means his present generation. " Read Luke" "Some of those standing here...."

But Jesus was clearly wrong! What do you expect? He was human, not divine as his error proved!

[Checkpoint]

Dear Marco,

It appears that you have not read my previous answer to this statement by Jesus Christ.

John the beloved did not die, but was translated in like manner as Enoch or Elijah. As I understand it he will remain in that state and not taste of death until the second coming of Jesus Christ.

Kind regards,
Revelations won

Well, it appears you have not read, or learned from, what Jesus said when asked about the John rumor(or from what John himself pointed out):

John 21:

21 When Peter saw him, he asked, Lord, what about him?

22 Jesus answered, If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me.

23 Because of this, the rumor spread among the believers that this disciple would not die. But Jesus did not say that he would not die; he only said, If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?

Grace and peace to you.

[polonius]

Dear Marco,

It appears that you have not read my previous answer to this statement by Jesus Christ.

John the beloved did not die, but was translated in like manner as Enoch or Elijah. As I understand it he will remain in that state and not taste of death until the second coming of Jesus Christ.

Kind regards,
Revelations won

RESPONSE: And what is your evidence for this claim or did you misunderstand the passage?