Describing the Christian God

[Jagella]

Question for Debate: How would you describe the Christian god?

The Christian god is an immaterial, timeless, space-less mind which is to say he's made of nothing and exists for no time in no particular place yet exists everywhere for all eternity. Although he's not made of matter he can interact with matter pushing things around and starting fires and floods and plagues and killing lots of people.

One "day" this being decided to create the world we live in by saying so. It should come as no surprise that he thought the results were "good." However, at least two problems existed in this good world. For one thing, God created a really bright angel named Lucifer who got too big for his britches thinking he could be like god. God, not being a proponent of free thought, became angry with Lucifer and cast him and one-third of Lucifer's allied angels out of heaven and down to the earth to cause a lot of trouble there.

Lucifer started the second trouble with the world by disguising himself as a snake and convincing the first woman Eve and her husband Adam to eat some fruit God told them to not to eat. It didn't take long for God to notice the deed, and he soon convened a meeting with Eve, Adam, and the snake. He kicked Eve and Adam out of paradise and made the snake eat dirt.

All was not lost by any means because God promised to send a redeemer to reverse the curse he laid on Eve and Adam and all of their descendants (that's us)--it would just take a while for the redeemer to arrive to save the world--four thousand years to get here!

In the meantime God was very busy with his world that wasn't so good anymore. He made major contributions to this lack of goodness with a world-wide flood and lots of wars he instigated. During this time he chose a people to be holy for him telling them what to do and punishing them if they disobeyed. These people became known as "Jews."

Finally God decided to send the redeemer he promised by getting a Jewish woman pregnant with himself. Evidently seeing sex as beneath him, he never used a penis to get her pregnant but maintained her virginity until she gave birth or even had her remain a virgin perpetually depending on whom you ask.

God named his human self "Jesus" and even started telling people he was made up of three "persons" in one god not bothering to explain the apparent change.

Anyway, God as infant grew up to be God as man and started a ministry. He recruited followers, started showing people his magic, told people they must believe everything he said, and started a fight with the Jewish leaders.

This fight with the Jewish leaders would apparently lead to his undoing in that those Jewish leaders had him executed by the Romans. But you can't keep a good God down, and Jesus as God came back to life. He visited some of his followers, ate some fish, magically walked through a wall, and then floated back up into the sky promising that despite his going away he would still be here.

So ever since then God has his followers eagerly expecting his return to get the job done destroying civilization and casting billions of people into a lake of fire. Until then he has his followers meeting once or twice a week to hear his story, sing off-key hymns, and eat hotdogs at picnics.

Now if anybody is experiencing difficulties believing all of this, they need to get over their doubt. God really hates skepticism and will send you to that lake of fire if you think there isn't one.

[For_The_Kingdom]

Staying flexible about meanings allows word play in lieu of actual debate.

Well, words have meanings.

Being a Non-Theist does not compel me to conclude ANYTHING about ‘good or bad’ people.

The subject of "Lucifer", and his ability to influence evil was brought into the discussion; a discussion that you choose to partake in.

My point was, it doesn't matter what you "call" the influence, because the influence exists whether or not you are a theist who calls it Lucifer, or you are an atheist who calls it WHATEVER.

You asked whether or not Lucifer was a real entity, and I simply pointed out it doesn't matter what you call it...because if you are getting stabbed in the neck by someone, it doesn't matter if the stabber was influenced by Lucifer or Mother Nature.

So, all of the uptightness is unnecessary.

“I don’t believe your god tales� means ONLY and EXACTLY that. Try to debate against my actual positions rather than a straw-man you construct to try to defeat.

Believe what you want, sir.

Rational thinking indicates that parents do NOT punish future generations if their children disobey.

Is that difficult to comprehend? Do you disagree?

Any so called "rationale" that comes attached with "morality" is subjective. You should know that. Or is that too difficult to comprehend?

Are there examples of parents punishing grandchildren, great grandchildren and/or additional future generations when their children disobey?

Yeah, in the Bible.

Are there any examples of life originating from nonliving material?

What part of “I have zero interest in movies� is so unclear and difficult to comprehend that any anonymous internet poster would be so foolish as to suggest that I set aside my disinterest in movies to watch several s/he suggests?

Well, look at it as me caring LESS about your interest in movies, and me caring MORE about the opportunity to give those movies a shout-out any chance that I get.

Rather than spend my time watching movies or television (have never owned a set), I prefer reading, research, and writing.

Cool.

Any three people can be said to be of the same ‘human nature’ – that does NOT indicate a trinity.

It does. One nature, 3 humans.

Perhaps a better example would be a person who exhibits multiple personalities; known to psychiatrists as Dissociative Identity Disorder

No, because multiple personalities doesn't change the essence of said person's human nature.

Perhaps it is easier to just claim it is true and encourage people to ‘believe on faith’ so they can go to heaven.

Or, one can provide Biblical proof for said claim and encourage people to draw their own conclusions..which is what is typically done.

"]
What tricks have you seen gods perform?

I didn't see Caesar get stabbed or Hannibal ride a war elephant. I guess neither occurred, then.

How would you know which ‘gods’ performed what tricks?

I have reasons to believe the Christian GOD pulled off the stunts, based on what I believe to be good evidence for the Christian God.

Have you seen magic performed by ‘gods’? If not, “all the more reason for [you] to question why [you] have not seen it yet�. If you claim to have seen godly magic, what ‘gods’ performed what magic AND how can that be verified?

Wait a minute, you keep talking about what I haven't "seen". Tell ya what, lets make deal..

If you can show me life originating from nonliving material, and a reptile evolving into a bird, I will show you a man walking on water, and rising from the dead?

Deal?

[Zzyzx]

.

Staying flexible about meanings allows word play in lieu of actual debate.

Well, words have meanings.

Kindly keep that in mind and avoid word play.

Being a Non-Theist does not compel me to conclude ANYTHING about ‘good or bad’ people.

The subject of "Lucifer", and his ability to influence evil was brought into the discussion; a discussion that you choose to partake in.

Yup, someone evidently thinks they know about ‘Lucifer’

My point was, it doesn't matter what you "call" the influence, because the influence exists whether or not you are a theist who calls it Lucifer, or you are an atheist who calls it WHATEVER.

This Non-Theist recognizes that humans are capable of and inclined toward both ‘good’ and ‘bad’ / positive and negative attitudes and actions – which some identify as ‘human nature’. That does NOT require any supernatural influence

You asked whether or not Lucifer was a real entity, and I simply pointed out it doesn't matter what you call it…

I did not ask what it is called. I asked if Lucifer was / is a real entity. If someone claims knowledge of a supernatural entity I challenge their claim of knowledge.

Ducking questions does not erase them from the mind of readers.

because if you are getting stabbed in the neck by someone, it doesn't matter if the stabber was influenced by Lucifer or Mother Nature.

Since no one here is likely to be stabbed in the neck, is ‘Lucifer’ an actual supernatural entity?

So, all of the uptightness is unnecessary.

Try to avoid that and debate the topic

“I don’t believe your god tales� means ONLY and EXACTLY that. Try to debate against my actual positions rather than a straw-man you construct to try to defeat.

Believe what you want, sir.

Kindly attempt to address my actual position rather than any straw-man.

Again: “I don’t believe your god tales� means ONLY and EXACTLY that.

Rational thinking indicates that parents do NOT punish future generations if their children disobey.

Is that difficult to comprehend? Do you disagree?

Any so called "rationale" that comes attached with "morality" is subjective. You should know that.

Okay. Use whatever rationale and morality you wish and tell readers if “parents punish future generations if their children disobey.�

Or is that too difficult to comprehend?

We’ll see how well you comprehend regarding parents punishing future generations if their children disobey.

Are there examples of parents punishing grandchildren, great grandchildren and/or additional future generations when their children disobey?

Yeah, in the Bible.

WHAT parents in the Bible punish multiple generations of their disobedient children?

Are there any examples of life originating from nonliving material?

Losing track of the discussion? Trying to slip a commercial into what is intended as a reasoned debate?

If you wish to discuss origin of life, kindly do the honorable thing and start a separate thread.

What part of “I have zero interest in movies� is so unclear and difficult to comprehend that any anonymous internet poster would be so foolish as to suggest that I set aside my disinterest in movies to watch several s/he suggests?

Well, look at it as me caring LESS about your interest in movies, and me caring MORE about the opportunity to give those movies a shout-out any chance that I get.

Ah – ulterior motive rather than debate the topic.

Rather than spend my time watching movies or television (have never owned a set), I prefer reading, research, and writing.

Cool.

Better use of my time. Average US citizen is said to watch TV four hours per day x 365 = 1460 hours = 60 full twenty-four hour days. Multiplied by 70 of my 80 years = 4200 full twenty-four hour days = 11.5 years full time. It has paid off for me in multiple ways.

Any three people can be said to be of the same ‘human nature’ – that does NOT indicate a trinity.

It does. One nature, 3 humans.

Is this to say that any three people are a trinity in the biblical sense because they share the same ‘human nature’?

Perhaps a better example would be a person who exhibits multiple personalities; known to psychiatrists as Dissociative Identity Disorder

No, because multiple personalities doesn't change the essence of said person's human nature.

Have you researched Dissociative Identity Disorder in order to speak truthfully and accurately?

Perhaps it is easier to just claim it is true and encourage people to ‘believe on faith’ so they can go to heaven.

Or, one can provide Biblical proof for said claim and encourage people to draw their own conclusions..which is what is typically done.

In these debates the Bible is NOT considered proof.

"]
What tricks have you seen gods perform?

I didn't see Caesar get stabbed or Hannibal ride a war elephant. I guess neither occurred, then.

Nice dodge. We are not discussing Caesar or Hannibal.

What tricks have you seen gods perform?

How would you know which ‘gods’ performed what tricks?

I have reasons to believe the Christian GOD pulled off the stunts, based on what I believe to be good evidence for the Christian God.

Kindly share with readers the good evidence that a Christian God pulled off the stunts – and show how you KNOW it was done by said ‘god’.

Have you seen magic performed by ‘gods’? If not, “all the more reason for [you] to question why [you] have not seen it yet�. If you claim to have seen godly magic, what ‘gods’ performed what magic AND how can that be verified?

Wait a minute, you keep talking about what I haven't "seen". Tell ya what, lets make deal.

Correction: I ASK if you have seen magic performed by ‘gods’.

Can you answer the question honestly?

If you can show me life originating from nonliving material, and a reptile evolving into a bird,

I make no such claims. Try to debate against what I actually say.

If you wish to debate origin of life or evolution kindly be honorable and start a separate thread.

I will show you a man walking on water, and rising from the dead?

Do you make claims regarding walking on water or rising from the dead?

Deal?

I will agree to provide verifiable evidence for any claim that I make. Will you do the same? Bet you won’t and can’t.

[For_The_Kingdom]

Kindly keep that in mind and avoid word play.

I didn't know that that is what I was doing, but cool.

Yup, someone evidently thinks they know about ‘Lucifer’

Some also think that they know about "nature".

This Non-Theist recognizes that humans are capable of and inclined toward both ‘good’ and ‘bad’ / positive and negative attitudes and actions – which some identify as ‘human nature’.

I am being dazzled with subjectivity.

That does NOT require any supernatural influence

Where did human nature come from?

I did not ask what it is called. I asked if Lucifer was / is a real entity.

And I am answering; YES.

If someone claims knowledge of a supernatural entity I challenge their claim of knowledge.

And I accept your challenge.

Ducking questions does not erase them from the mind of readers.

No Daffy here.

Since no one here is likely to be stabbed in the neck, is ‘Lucifer’ an actual supernatural entity?

Yes.

Try to avoid that and debate the topic

Ok.

Kindly attempt to address my actual position rather than any straw-man.

Again: “I don’t believe your god tales� means ONLY and EXACTLY that.

Well, just because I believe in "god tales" doesn't mean that it is true. But then again, just because you DON'T believe in "god tales"...well, that DOESN'T mean that it isn't true.

See? Stalemate.

Okay. Use whatever rationale and morality you wish and tell readers if “parents punish future generations if their children disobey.�

More subjective dazzling.

We’ll see how well you comprehend regarding parents punishing future generations if their children disobey.

And more.

WHAT parents in the Bible punish multiple generations of their disobedient children?

My bad. God punishes to the fourth generation, not parents.

Losing track of the discussion? Trying to slip a commercial into what is intended as a reasoned debate?

If you wish to discuss origin of life, kindly do the honorable thing and start a separate thread.

No need. Correct me if I am wrong; you are willing to give forth the possibility that God (a god) could have created life?

Correct?

Ah – ulterior motive rather than debate the topic.

We are back on track...right to your liking.

Better use of my time. Average US citizen is said to watch TV four hours per day x 365 = 1460 hours = 60 full twenty-four hour days. Multiplied by 70 of my 80 years = 4200 full twenty-four hour days = 11.5 years full time. It has paid off for me in multiple ways.

Well, those citizens can watch tv and retain information quicker than you can read and/or research it.

Now, if your claim is "But reading is better"...well, right back to subjectivity.

Is this to say that any three people are a trinity in the biblical sense because they share the same ‘human nature’?

Yes. Exactly.

Have you researched Dissociative Identity Disorder in order to speak truthfully and accurately?

No, but I don't need to research it in order to draw the conclusion, that if one suffers from this disorder, that one is not suddenly a non-human / un-human.

One is still human, which is the accurate truth.

In these debates the Bible is NOT considered proof.

LOL. Its funny. Atheists have no problem using the Bible to DISPROVE certain things...but when theists use the Bible to PROVE certain things, then suddenly, "the BIBLE is not considered proof".

Laughable.

Nice dodge. We are not discussing Caesar or Hannibal.

No, no, no. The subject is whether or not an alleged event in history has occurred..and you are implying that if we didn't see it, then we shouldn't believe it.

And all I did was simply point out stuff that no one living today has seen, but all seem to generally accept /believe...which of course, if we applied your logic to any X event in antiquity, then we wouldn't be able to believe anything.

What tricks have you seen gods perform?

What elephants did you see Hannibal ride on? See?? I did it again.

Kindly share with readers the good evidence that a Christian God pulled off the stunts – and show how you KNOW it was done by said ‘god’.

Quite a lengthy discussion.

Correction: I ASK if you have seen magic performed by ‘gods’.

Can you answer the question honestly?

No, but since NONE of my arguments is EVER based on what I've seen/didn't see as it relates to God(s), my admission that I never seen magic performed by gods is irrelevant.

I make no such claims. Try to debate against what I actually say.

If you wish to debate origin of life or evolution kindly be honorable and start a separate thread.

Maybe I will.

Do you make claims regarding walking on water or rising from the dead?

Yeah, because based on the presented evidence, Jesus did.

I will agree to provide verifiable evidence for any claim that I make. Will you do the same? Bet you won’t and can’t.

I can and I do.