This Generation Will Not Pass Away:

[Overcomer]

Jesus talks about the destruction of the temple and signs of the end times in Matt. 24:1-35:

1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 Do you see all these things? he asked. Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. Tell us, they said, when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?

4 Jesus answered: Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, I am the Messiah, and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15 So when you see standing in the holy place the abomination that causes desolation,[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel"let the reader understand" 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now"and never to be equaled again.

22 If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, Look, here is the Messiah! or, There he is! do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

26 So if anyone tells you, There he is, out in the wilderness, do not go out; or, Here he is, in the inner rooms, do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29 Immediately after the distress of those days


the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.

30 Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32 Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Verse 34 has been the subject of many a debate. My questions are as follows:

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 484 by polonius]

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

RESPONSE: "this" means his present generation. " Read Luke" "Some of those standing here...."

But Jesus was clearly wrong! What do you expect? He was human, not divine as his error proved!

You did not answer the question posed, "Who is "this generation?"

It is a generation that Jesus defined by its identity, not by its length alone, and not by its presence at that time.

Jesus was clearly not wrong, as the fulfilment of his "all things" has not yet taken place.

The jury is therefore still out.

Grace and peace.

[brianbbs67]

And all this turns back to who was the disciple Jesus loved. Maybe he lingers yet. Couldn't have been John.

[marco]

Dear Marco,

It appears that you have not read my previous answer to this statement by Jesus Christ.

John the beloved did not die, but was translated in like manner as Enoch or Elijah. As I understand it he will remain in that state and not taste of death until the second coming of Jesus Christ.

And perhaps Mary is included in "some of you will not taste death". Who else, to make "some" have meaning? We can speculate, of course, but it would be nice to see the words written in the book that is supposed to be the foundation of Christianity. A footnote written by someone centuries later is inadequate.

[Checkpoint]

And all this turns back to who was the disciple Jesus loved. Maybe he lingers yet. Couldn't have been John.

No?

Why not?

Grace and peace.

[brianbbs67]

And all this turns back to who was the disciple Jesus loved. Maybe he lingers yet. Couldn't have been John.

No?

Why not?

Grace and peace.

Because John talks of the disciple whom christ loved and never equates it with himself. John is not written in the third person. So, why would only a few pieces be? JMO. Shalom.

[Checkpoint]

And all this turns back to who was the disciple Jesus loved. Maybe he lingers yet. Couldn't have been John.

No?

Why not?

Grace and peace.

Because John talks of the disciple whom christ loved and never equates it with himself. John is not written in the third person. So, why would only a few pieces be? JMO. Shalom.

Because it is his way of humbling himself, of taking the lowest place, by not identifying himself as that unnamed disciple.

[Difflugia]

And all this turns back to who was the disciple Jesus loved. Maybe he lingers yet. Couldn't have been John.

No?

Why not?

Grace and peace.

A reasonable argument can be made that it's Lazarus.

Jn 11:1-3

Now a certain man was ill, Lazarus of Bethany, the village of Mary and her sister Martha. It was Mary who anointed the Lord with ointment and wiped his feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was ill. So the sisters sent to him, saying, Lord, he whom you love is ill.

Jn 11:5

"Now Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus."

Jn 12:1-2

Six days before the Passover, Jesus therefore came to Bethany, where Lazarus was, whom Jesus had raised from the dead. So they gave a dinner for him there. Martha served, and Lazarus was one of those reclining with him at table.

Jn 13:23-25

One of his disciples, whom Jesus loved, was reclining at table at Jesus' side, so Simon Peter motioned to him to ask Jesus of whom he was speaking. So that disciple, leaning back against Jesus, said to him, Lord, who is it?

Finally, the argument is that where John 21:24 says "...we know that his testimony is true," the author of the Gospel (who in this argument is still John, or at least someone other than Lazarus) is included in the we. Since his in the same phrase means the disciple whom Jesus loved and also refers to someone outside of the we, it can't refer to the author as is usually assumed.

[Checkpoint]

And all this turns back to who was the disciple Jesus loved. Maybe he lingers yet. Couldn't have been John.

No?

Why not?

Grace and peace.

A reasonable argument can be made that it's Lazarus.

Jn 11:1-3

Now a certain man was ill, Lazarus of Bethany, the village of Mary and her sister Martha. It was Mary who anointed the Lord with ointment and wiped his feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was ill. So the sisters sent to him, saying, Lord, he whom you love is ill.

Jn 11:5

"Now Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus."

Jn 12:1-2

Six days before the Passover, Jesus therefore came to Bethany, where Lazarus was, whom Jesus had raised from the dead. So they gave a dinner for him there. Martha served, and Lazarus was one of those reclining with him at table.

Jn 13:23-25

One of his disciples, whom Jesus loved, was reclining at table at Jesus' side, so Simon Peter motioned to him to ask Jesus of whom he was speaking. So that disciple, leaning back against Jesus, said to him, Lord, who is it?

Finally, the argument is that where John 21:24 says "...we know that his testimony is true," the author of the Gospel (who in this argument is still John, or at least someone other than Lazarus) is included in the we. Since his in the same phrase means the disciple whom Jesus loved and also refers to someone outside of the we, it can't refer to the author as is usually assumed.

I suggest that assumption is well-based, whereas your "and also refers to someone outside of the we" has no basis.

Please reconsider.

John 21:

22 Jesus answered, If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me.

23 Because of this, the rumor spread among the believers that this disciple would not die. But Jesus did not say that he would not die; he only said, If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?

24 This is the disciple who testifies to these things and who wrote them down. We know that his testimony is true.

Grace and peace to you.

[Revelations won]

This Generation shall not all pass away


To Marcus, Checkpoint and other responders,

I have certainly read your posts.

In response to the below reference may I point out that at least one has declared that a rumor has started in relation to the translated state of John the revelator. Perhaps it could be more correctly stated that the response initiated a rumor was started on the assumption that the previously claimed rumor existed. Now I will admit that there are some that may have started the initial rumor. You should be careful, however to not include everyone.

quote:

John 21:

21 When Peter saw him, he asked, Lord, what about him?

22 Jesus answered, If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me.

23 Because of this, the rumor spread among the believers that this disciple would not die. But Jesus did not say that he would not die; he only said, If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?


I will also point out to you the clear statement as found in the KJV translation:


21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? 22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him*, He shall not die; but,If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?

24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.

25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

We should also remember that these words of Christ spoken in John 21 are from the resurrected Lord.

Perhaps a more definitive answer to the resurrected Christs statement regarding John is found from the Book of Revelation itself:

Revelation 10:

7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound*, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
8 And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth.
9 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.
10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.
11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

Verse 7 clearly points out that the following verses apply directly to the time of the opening of the seventh seal.

We should also note that verse 11 applies directly to
the Apostle also known as John the Beloved.

11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

Now this raises a powerful question which I challenge you to give a clear answer.

Either John will prophesy as stated in verse 11 as a translated being or as a resurrected prophet? Which is it?

I hope you have other documentation to support your answer.

Kindest regards,
RW

[rondonmonson]

[Replying to post 1 by Overcomer]

The "Generation" that sees all of the signs. The last sign is the Sun going dark, the Moon turning blood red and the Stars {Demons being cast to earth IMHO} falling to earth. This happens during the 70th week or just after the Rapture during the final 7 years of mankind on earth before Jesus returns.

So it happens at the exact Midway point of the final 7 years. On day 1260 {actually 1261} as Daniel describes it, 1260 days until all these wonders end {Second Coming}.

THAT GENERATION is thus those living specifically in that time period.