Deism vs. Atheism. Which is more likely true?

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William
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Deism vs. Atheism. Which is more likely true?

Post #1

Post by William »

Assuming for argument sake that it is possible for the universe to exist without intelligent design...

In what way is atheism still a better position to assume? In what way is atheism more likely to be truer than Deism?

One of the most popular arguments I ever come across for atheism over any type of theism usually goes along the lines of "if I were god, I would want to interact with my creation rather than stay absent like the Deistic god, and since there is no evidence of GOD existing through interaction, atheism is still the preferred position to have, because the deist GOD is absent anyway, so might as well not exist."

So, in what way is atheism more likely truer than Deism?

Or, are the two positions so similar that they are not even in conflict with each other and may as well be the same thing?

After all, a deist idea of GOD in relation to this universe, might as well not exist. Which is precisely the atheist position on the subject of GOD.

Thoughts?

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Post #21

Post by 2Dbunk »

[Replying to post 10 by paarsurrey1]

Divine Insight wrote:
paarsurrey1 wrote:

Everybody who believes in the Truthful Religion, please.
Regards
DI writes:

Everyone who believes in a religion believes that their religion is the "Truthful" religion.

So apparently all religious folk are exactly alike.
parrsurrey answers:

Just like the Buddhism and Confucianism people, they are our brothers in humanity. Right, please?
Regards
No, they are your brothers in religion. Non-theists are not included in your mix although we are part of humanity as well.
What good is truth if its value is not more than unproven, handed-down faith?

One believes things because one is conditioned to believe them. -Aldous Huxley

Fear within the Religious will always be with them ... as long as they are fearful of death.

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Post #22

Post by Athetotheist »

There is a huge misnomer about Deism which must be cleared up. While some Deists believe that God started the universe and then detatched from it, this belief is by no means universal among Deists. There is a considerable amount of speculation and debate among Deists about the degree to which God is involved with the universe.

As I said in another thread, adopting Carl Sagan's definition of the cosmos as "all that is or ever was or ever will be" establishes everything we know of----all things, forces and principles-----as part of the cosmos itself. In attempting to account for the existence of the cosmos, therefore, we can't invoke anything we know of without resorting to an explanation which is part of what we're trying to explain. So the cosmos not being self-explanatory suggests something existing beyond it as the source of its existence, and that puts us into the realm of a deistic "prime mover".

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Re: Deism vs. Atheism. Which is more likely true?

Post #23

Post by Menotu »

[Replying to post 1 by William]

In what way is atheism still a better position to assume? In what way is atheism more likely to be truer than Deism?

Why would we have to assume than any 'supreme entity' is responsible for anything to begin with (other than because it makes us feel good)?
Deism, as I see it, is something created by people who want or need something better/bigger than themselves.
Atheism seems to only be an answer/counterpoint to a type of deity/supreme being. Without the need for a supreme being, there's no need for atheism.

Without the belief in a supreme being, atheism wouldn't exist as it's an answer to some sort of supreme being belief.

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Re: Deism vs. Atheism. Which is more likely true?

Post #24

Post by William »

[Replying to post 23 ]

William: In what way is atheism still a better position to assume? In what way is atheism more likely to be truer than Deism?

Menotu: Why would we have to assume than any 'supreme entity' is responsible for anything to begin with (other than because it makes us feel good)?

William: We do not have to assume anything of the sort. Why would the existence of a 'supreme entity' make 'us' 'feel good'?
There is no reference to a 'supreme entity' in the OPQ's


Menotu: Deism, as I see it, is something created by people who want or need something better/bigger than themselves.

William: From my perspective, that is a very shallow misrepresentation of Deism, and not the focus of the OP.

Menotu: Atheism seems to only be an answer/counterpoint to a type of deity/supreme being. Without the need for a supreme being, there's no need for atheism.

William: Since creating this thread, I have come to the conclusion that Atheists are divided as to what an 'atheist' is, so don't use the term any longer, preferring the term 'non-theist'.

That said, if non-theists exist as a counteraction to the ideas of a Creator, the point of the OP is to point out that in the case of Deism - as it is popularly regarded - a Creator which does not actively participate with Its Creation, is about as useful as having no regard for the idea of a Creator at all, such as the non-theist position holds.


Menotu: Without the belief in a supreme being, atheism wouldn't exist as it's an answer to some sort of supreme being belief.

William: Except in the case of Deism. What do non-theists have to concern themselves with in relation to a Creator which does not interact with Its Creation?

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Post #25

Post by William »

[Replying to post 22 by ]

Athetotheist: In attempting to account for the existence of the cosmos, therefore, we can't invoke anything we know of without resorting to an explanation which is part of what we're trying to explain.

William: This appears to suggest that there is no evidence of a Mindful Creator, in examining the Creation.

Is that what you are saying?

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