This Generation Will Not Pass Away:

[Overcomer]

Jesus talks about the destruction of the temple and signs of the end times in Matt. 24:1-35:

1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 Do you see all these things? he asked. Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. Tell us, they said, when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?

4 Jesus answered: Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, I am the Messiah, and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15 So when you see standing in the holy place the abomination that causes desolation,[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel"let the reader understand" 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now"and never to be equaled again.

22 If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, Look, here is the Messiah! or, There he is! do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

26 So if anyone tells you, There he is, out in the wilderness, do not go out; or, Here he is, in the inner rooms, do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29 Immediately after the distress of those days


the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.

30 Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32 Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Verse 34 has been the subject of many a debate. My questions are as follows:

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

[Revelations won]

I have stated in previous post my views on this topic.

I will recap by stating:

Yes, the Hebrew people will yet build a very beautiful templet the predetermined location, constructed using the very finest craftsmanship.

Yes, the tribe of Judah will clearly recognize the Messiah when he shall appear to perform his mighty works.

Yes, the God of Avraham, Isaac, and Jacob will indeed set his hand again the second time to redeem all Israel as prophesied in the OT.

Yes, the full house of Israel constitutes all twelve tribes descending from Jacob.

Yes, the mighty God of Israel has made a covenant which HE CANNOT BREAK, only we can break that sacred covenant.

Yes, the remnant which survive the challenges which lay before us will repent and yet rejoice and serve him who will protect and redeem those who are faithful.

[marco]

Yes, the God of Avraham, Isaac, and Jacob will indeed set his hand again the second time to redeem all Israel as prophesied in the OT.

Well he might meet more resistance this time. It's such a pity he was ill during WW2 or he could have helped his people.

It is amusing that he's "the God of Avraham, Isaac and Jacob," those famous contributors to mankind's progress.... not the God of Archimedes, Newton and Einstein.

[Revelations won]

Hi Marco,

You said "Well he might meet more resistance this time. It's such a pity he was ill during WW2 or he could have helped his people.

It is amusing that he's "the God of Avraham, Isaac and Jacob," those famous contributors to mankind's progress.... not the God of Archimedes, Newton and Einstein."




Did you perhaps forget that the Lord God of Israel always has and will always be a protector and help to his covenant people when they are obedient to him and his commandments as clearly shown in the case of deliverance from Egypt, and in subsequent battles when they reached the promised land etc.

It appears that they by their own choice forfeited his help when they fell into apostasy and worshipped other gods. In short they have broken the covenant.

Do you think it just to receive protection from the living God when they rebelled and apostatized by not keeping the commandments and committing blasphemy by idol worshiping and serving other false gods?

[marco]

Do you think it just to receive protection from the living God when they rebelled and apostatized by not keeping the commandments and committing blasphemy by idol worshiping and serving other false gods?

Do you think infants were worshippers of idols during the Holocaust? The quality of mercy, Shakespeare tells us, is not strained, but falls like dew from heaven. As I said, if God was unwell during the Holocaust, so that no gentle dew fell while babies were gassed, it was an unfortunate time to be ill. One would hope that your explanation, involving spite, is not a true one. Jews continue to honour the God of Abraham in the ancient fashion, so I don't see why estrangement has set in.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 1 by Overcomer]

Discussions on this thread have moved very far from its focus and intention.

Which was and is:

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

What is your answer, and what is its basis?

[marco]

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

What is your answer, and what is its basis?

Probably one might ask: What did Matthew mean or intend? Given it is Matthew, it is almost certain he was sensing the time limit of the alleged prediction was drawing close.
Teasing out a subtle meaning for "generation" possibly turns a dandelion into a rose.

[Checkpoint]

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

What is your answer, and what is its basis?

Probably one might ask: What did Matthew mean or intend? Given it is Matthew, it is almost certain he was sensing the time limit of the alleged prediction was drawing close.
Teasing out a subtle meaning for "generation" possibly turns a dandelion into a rose.

That is what you might ask and answer, but it may just turn a rose into a dandelion.

Ah well, nver mind, you tried.

And a real plus is you did not turn it into a prophecy dissertation.

[polonius]

34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
[/i]
Verse 34 has been the subject of many a debate. My questions are as follows:

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

RESPONSE: Using the plain meaning of words "this" means the present generation he was speaking about. ("That generation" would have meant any future generation.)

[Checkpoint]

34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
[/i]
Verse 34 has been the subject of many a debate. My questions are as follows:

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

RESPONSE: Using the plain meaning of words "this" means the present generation he was speaking about. ("That generation" would have meant any future generation.)

Exactly.

Well put.

However, your definition is, as you say, "the plain meaning".

What if there is also another meaning, one that is actually used elsewhere in the Bible?

And what if Jesus was a speaker well known to often use words in unusual or unexpected ways?

[Eloi]

The most basic meaning content of the demonstrative "this" lies in the proximity of the referent. This proximity can refer to a referent in thousands of ways, such as someone/something not physically or temporarily close but that the listener perceives its proximity in some way.

Many biblical expressions, even if they are said in an specific context, can have extra-contextual meanings, such as prophecies, which have a relatively immediate fulfillment (in almost all cases) and a greater fulfillment that may be pointing to a more distant future time.

An example of this is seen in Paul's words when he refers to the coming of Jesus Christ to take his anointed brothers with him ... here:

1 Thes. 4:17 Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall always be with [the] Lord. 18 Consequently keep comforting one another with these words.

Paul speaks as if he himself were going to be alive at the time of Jesus' arrival to call his brothers with him, but a simple analysis is enough to realize that he is speaking in a prophetic sense, indicating that on that day when the anointed ones are all going to join Jesus in the heavens, some of them would be alive and transformed, as explained in this other place:

1 Cor. 15:50 Now, this I say, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit Gods kingdom, neither does corruption inherit incorruption. 51Look! I tell YOU a sacred secret: We shall not all fall asleep [in death], but we shall all be changed, 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, during the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this which is corruptible must put on incorruption, and this which is mortal must put on immortality. 54But when [this which is corruptible puts on incorruption and] this which is mortal puts on immortality, then the saying will take place that is written: Death is swallowed up forever. 55 Death, where is your victory? Death, where is your sting? 56 The sting producing death is sin, but the power for sin is the Law. 57But thanks to God, for he gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ!
58 Consequently, my beloved brothers, become steadfast, unmovable, always having plenty to do in the work of the Lord, knowing that YOUR labor is not in vain in connection with [the] Lord.

That second meaning of the words of the Bible, which is mostly prophetic, cannot be correctly discerned by people who cannot understand spiritual matters, such as atheists who lack deep biblical knowledge.