Are humans related to apes?

[Zzyzx]

.
Are humans related to apes?

Geneticists (people who study such things) tell us that H. sapiens have great genetic similarity to members of the taxonomic group Family: Hominidae (great apes).

This seems to offend some people or to contradict their religious beliefs.

On what basis can argument be made that the classification is in error?

[otseng]

not demand the rest of us to live in your fantasy land of the past.

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[SallyF]

[Replying to post 74 by SallyF]

And in this response you did not discuss the details of biblical "Creation".

Especially regarding the mud-man and his rib-woman.

And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

According to the "Word of God" the mythological Jehovah Elohim (Lord God) had created sheep and wombats and apes and such in futile attempts to find a suitable help meet for the mud-man.

I put it to you that everyone reading this knows we are dealing with mythology.

You forgot one very important verse, that God breath into man the breath of life. Ashes to ashes dust to dust. Man does come from the dust of the ground but what makes man different than the rest of the animal kingdom is this one distinction that God breath into man the breath of life. God did this with no other part of His creation.

So is man different than the rest of the created creators?

What other animal can think and contemplate his position in the universe?
Cogito, ergo sum. (I think therefore I am) Only man can do this.

How did man acquire complex language which is hardwired into his brain?

The Bible states that man is different that the rest of the created kingdom in only one respect and that is man's ability to have a deep and meaningful relationship through communication because man has a soul which God breath into him.

You forgot one very important item

Evidence that the mythological Jehovah created Adam the Australopithecine out of mud.

And you didn't even mention anything AT ALL

About the mythological Jehovah creating Eve the Australopithecine female from one of Adam's ribs.

Was this not mentioned at all

Because we BOTH recognise it as primitive mythology that has nothing whatsoever to do with evidence-based, scientific reality ?

Mud-men and rib-women created by an ancient Middle East god certainly looks, quacks and waddles like mythology to me.

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to post 80 by Difflugia]

EarthScienceguy wrote:
A hot spring water lake in Tateyama Hot Spring has a high content of silica and readily precipitates silica spheres and deposits of opal.

Those are amorphous, non-crystalline forms of silica, like glass. SiO2 doesn't crystallize out of solution as quartz in smaller than geologic timescales.

A hot spring water lake in Tateyama Hot Spring has a high content of silica and readily precipitates silica spheres and deposits of opal. Abundant fragments of naturally fallen wood impregnated with silica were found in the overflow stream of the lake. These silicifications resulted from the precipitation of silica spheres onto split surfaces or cell walls of the fallen wood. The textures of wood tissues are the same as those found on naturally silicified wood formed in the vicinity of volcanic regions in the geological record. These results explain the formation mechanism of certain naturally silicified wood fragments that seem to be formed under the same conditions as those found in the hot spring water.To confirm the silicification process, fresh wood pieces of alder wood (Alnus pendula Matsumura) were placed in the hot spring water stream. Experimental wood fragments were silicified to nearly 40% by weight over a period of 7 years by the deposition of amorphous silica spheres in cell lumina of wood tissue.This study reveals that silicified wood can form under suitable conditions in time periods as short as tens to hundreds of years, and contributes to the understanding of the mechanisms forming silicified wood.
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... cation_in_...

Facts are facts.

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to post 82 by SallyF]

You forgot one very important item

Evidence that the mythological Jehovah created Adam the Australopithecine out of mud.

What evidence would that be?

Australopithecine had the brain the size of a Chimp., was around the size of a chimp., swung in trees like a chimp., and walked like a chimp.

Conclusion Australopithecine was a chimp.

Australopithecine may have and long thumps but thumps do not make a human. The breath of God in man is what makes a human.

[SallyF]

[Replying to post 82 by SallyF]

You forgot one very important item

Evidence that the mythological Jehovah created Adam the Australopithecine out of mud.

What evidence would that be?

Australopithecine had the brain the size of a Chimp., was around the size of a chimp., swung in trees like a chimp., and walked like a chimp.

Conclusion Australopithecine was a chimp.

Australopithecine may have and long thumps but thumps do not make a human. The breath of God in man is what makes a human.

Still not a shred of evidence of any sort whatsoever for anything to do with the biblical mythology regarding the mud-man.

AND

SIGNIFICANTLY

Again not a mention of the rib-woman.

[bluegreenearth]

[Replying to post 80 by Difflugia]

EarthScienceguy wrote:
A hot spring water lake in Tateyama Hot Spring has a high content of silica and readily precipitates silica spheres and deposits of opal.

Those are amorphous, non-crystalline forms of silica, like glass. SiO2 doesn't crystallize out of solution as quartz in smaller than geologic timescales.

A hot spring water lake in Tateyama Hot Spring has a high content of silica and readily precipitates silica spheres and deposits of opal. Abundant fragments of naturally fallen wood impregnated with silica were found in the overflow stream of the lake. These silicifications resulted from the precipitation of silica spheres onto split surfaces or cell walls of the fallen wood. The textures of wood tissues are the same as those found on naturally silicified wood formed in the vicinity of volcanic regions in the geological record. These results explain the formation mechanism of certain naturally silicified wood fragments that seem to be formed under the same conditions as those found in the hot spring water.To confirm the silicification process, fresh wood pieces of alder wood (Alnus pendula Matsumura) were placed in the hot spring water stream. Experimental wood fragments were silicified to nearly 40% by weight over a period of 7 years by the deposition of amorphous silica spheres in cell lumina of wood tissue.This study reveals that silicified wood can form under suitable conditions in time periods as short as tens to hundreds of years, and contributes to the understanding of the mechanisms forming silicified wood.
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... cation_in_...

Facts are facts.

Unless I'm mistaken having just wandered into this conversation, I think Difflugia's point is that large uniform silica crystals visible to the naked eye like those found in amethyst geodes can only form in magma that slowly cools for millions of years and not within just a few years. The experiment you've cited actually confirms that the rapid silica deposition observed in the alder wood fragments is only able to form in amorphous spheres and not the large tetrahedral structures we find in the silica crystals mined from cooled and uplifted magma chambers.

Furthermore, I'm not sure if this was already mentioned, but the type of permineralization described in the experiment you cited is not at all the same type of permineraliztion process responsible for most of the fossilized plant and animal remains observed in the fossil record. Where we do find fossils exhibiting the type of permineralization described by that cited experiment, scientists can indeed conclude those specific fossils formed much quicker than most of the other types of permineralized fossils that have been found. However, it would be intellectually dishonest to extrapolate a young Earth creation from that evidence.

For example, wood from trees rapidly buried under a thick layer of volcanic ash that was subsequently saturated with mineral rich groundwater at a high temperatures could have quickly precipitated silica in the pores of the wood, but that entire stratigraphic segment could subsequently become isolated for millions of years before tectonic forces uplift it to the point where it becomes exposed at the surface again by erosion. Just because we find the fossilized wood had been quickly permineralized, it doesn't follow that the trees must have only been buried by the volcanic ash a few dozen years ago. It also doesn't follow that every fossil found in every other stratigraphic context must have permineralized in the same way. As the paper you cited states, silicified wood can form under suitable conditions in short time periods. Outside of those "suitable conditions," geologic time scales may be required to achieve permineralization.

[Difflugia]

Obviously there are conditions under which what you describe happens, but Answers in Genesis and you are incorrectly inferring from this that all silicaceous fossils can be formed by the same process.

For what is now the fourth time explaining this to you, what is most commonly called petrified wood is composed of crystalline quartz:

Minerals, including silica dissolved from volcanic ash, absorbed into the porous wood over hundreds and thousands of years crystallized within the cellular structure, replacing the organic material as it broke down over time. Sometimes crushing or decay left cracks in the logs. Here large jewel-like crystals of clear quartz, purple amethyst, yellow citrine, and smoky quartz formed.

Producing crystalline quartz requires either extremes of heat and pressure that would damage the structure of the fossil or else a very long time.

Facts are facts.

[Sigh]

Whether you believe me or not, what I've told you isn't just rhetorical sparring. If there's a fast way of generating the kind of petrified wood found in Arizona, I don't know what it is. I'm pretty sure Answers in Genesis doesn't know, either, because none of the papers Snelling quoted describe a way to do it. With the exception of Ohler, they all describe mineralization of wood with amorphous silica. Ohler describes converting amorphous silica into quartz by crushing it in an industrial press. Combining the two processes doesn't somehow get you petrified wood and Snelling describes the papers accurately enough that I'm convinced that he knows that.

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to post 85 by SallyF]

Still not a shred of evidence of any sort whatsoever for anything to do with the biblical mythology regarding the mud-man.

AND

SIGNIFICANTLY

Again not a mention of the rib-woman

Your world-view
has no evidence of where life came from.

has no evidence of where the universe came from

has no evidence of how animals evolved from simple life in the precambrian to all kinds of life in the cambrian.

has no evidence of where 1.2 billion years of precambrian rock went that should cover the earth at least a little rock from that time should be present.

has no evidence of how ape with 48 chromosome turned into man with 46 chromosomes.

Having no evidence for any of these events has not stopped you from trying to propagate your make believe story the universe and life.

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to post 87 by Difflugia]

I am not sure why you keep saying answers in genesis. I sighted the article for you several times. It comes from. Sedimentary Geology 169(3):219-228 - July 2004

It only takes 7 years to make petrified wood like we see in Arizona.

[Difflugia]

I am not sure why you keep saying answers in genesis.

Because the article you quoted from here was written for Answers in Genesis by Andrew Snelling.

I sighted the article for you several times. It comes from. Sedimentary Geology 169(3):219-228 - July 2004

It only takes 7 years to make petrified wood like we see in Arizona.

That paper describes silification by precipitation of "silica spheres and deposits of opal." That's not what the petrified wood in Arizona is composed of.