Stephen Hawking has passed...

DeMotts · Post by **DeMotts** » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:25 am

Just broke on the news, Professor Stephen Hawking has passed away. He was an intellectual giant, and seemed almost immortal in a sense - I never really thought much about him dying despite having a famously incurable terminal illness. I feel the human race has today lost one of the titans of science.

Anyone care to share their opinions on Hawking? I'd be interested to hear what some of the theists have to say about the man. Ever since I read A Brief History of Time I've had a much greater interest in physics and cosmology. His approach to writing the book made it accessible for non-academics like myself to have an appreciation of the mysteries of the universe.

Thoughts?

Divine Insight · Post by **Divine Insight** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:49 pm

SkyChief wrote: I'm not a believer, but I was somewhat disappointed when Hawking made the claim that there is no god. He couldn't possibly know that - nobody can know that.

â€œBut now science offers a more convincing explanation. What I meant by â€˜we would know the mind of Godâ€™ is, we would know everything that God would know if there were a God, which there isnâ€™t....â€�

(I added the bold)

Despite this gaffe, Hawking is/was an exceptional mind/man, and he went to great lengths to make quantum science accessible to laity like me.

This is a strange statement coming from someone who is supposed to be so intelligent.

The actual statement reads:

"What I meant by 'we would know the mind of God' is, we would know everything that God would know, if there were a God, which there isn't. I'm an atheist.â€�

All he had to do to make this statement perfectly rational true and correct was add the following two words:

"What I meant by 'we would know the mind of God' is, we would know everything that God would know, if there were a God, which I believe there isn't. I'm an atheist.â€�

That would have made the statement perfectly fine.

And being a scientist he should have included those two words. Because surely even he had to know that just because he believes something that doesn't make it true.

Kenisaw · Post by **Kenisaw** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:52 pm

[Replying to post 11 by Divine Insight]

Perhaps he was convinced their isn't one, in which case his choice of venacular was appropriate.

Divine Insight · Post by **Divine Insight** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:10 pm

Kenisaw wrote: [Replying to post 11 by Divine Insight]

Perhaps he was convinced their isn't one, in which case his choice of venacular was appropriate.

The problem is that someone of his intelligence should have known better than to jump to such an utterly absurd conclusion. And I don't mean that it's absurd to think that their might not be a God, but to think that this then equates to knowing that there isn't one is, quite frankly, NOT intelligent. It's certainly not logical.

There is a caveat to be had here however:

This really depends on what Hawking even means by his use of the word "God".

If he is restricting that term to only refer to the obviously false egotistical gods of mythologies, including the Biblical God, then he's perfectly correct in stating that those types of God do not exist. There is no question that the God described in the Bible, as an example, does not exist. That's proven by the Biblical canon itself.

So if Hawking was speaking solely to the "western" (or middle eastern) meaning of "God" as a jealous egotistical entity who supposedly intervenes in human affairs even to the extreme of plotting to have humans brutally crucify his son so he can offer them undeserved grace and amnesty from his wrath, then Hawking is perfectly correct. There is no God in that sense for certain.

But someone of Hawking's vast knowledge should have been fully aware that egotistical jealous Gods who plan out sadistic scenarios to hold over the heads of inept humans hardly represents the full scope of what the term "God" can potentially mean.

Surely Hawking must have known that there exist ideas of "God" that are fully compatible with everything he knew about physics and the observable world?

So how could he possibly rule out an idea that doesn't conflict with everything he knows?

William · Post by **William** » Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:43 pm

[Replying to post 13 by Divine Insight]

So how could he possibly rule out an idea that doesn't conflict with everything he knows?

The likely answer to this is that waxing philosophical is not something that a lot of these types of scientist can do or think of as acceptable. They believe that all theologies are devoid of logic, evidence, and data. All of them.

They believe that science can only be interpreted one way and that way excludes any and all ideas of creator-GODs. Period. No argument. They are right. Any who feel otherwise are wrong.

Monta · Post by **Monta** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:58 am

[Replying to post 14 by William]

"They believe that science can only be interpreted one way and that way excludes any and all ideas of creator-GODs. Period. No argument. They are right. Any who feel otherwise are wrong."

Human ego.

William · Post by **William** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:02 am

[Replying to post 15 by Monta]

Human Ego does play its part of course, in any sector of the whole spectrum of human interaction with this reality.

I think though that it seems clear enough that scientists like Stephen focused mainly on the popular ideas of GOD and were clearly disturbed by those ideas and found those ideas to be incompatible with reality because of the superstition involved and that their own newly forming ideas backed by mathematical equation conflicted with those traditions based in superstition.

Post by **Tcg** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:31 pm

William wrote:
I think though that it seems clear enough that scientists like Stephen focused mainly on the popular ideas of GOD...

You have absolutely no idea what concepts of god Mr. Hawking considered. What we do know is that given that Mr. Hawking was an atheist, he found no reason to accept the idea that god/gods exist. Any conclusion beyond that is pure speculation, as is yours.

William · Post by **William** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:49 pm

[Replying to post 17 by Tcg]

Your complaint makes no sense when compared with the context of what I was saying.

Post by **Tcg** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:32 pm

William wrote: [Replying to post 17 by Tcg]

Your complaint makes no sense when compared with the context of what I was saying.

It makes perfect sense. The only way you could argue against it would be to present evidence that you know what concepts of god Mr. Hawking considered. This reply doesn't even attempt to provide that.

William · Post by **William** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:55 pm

[Replying to post 19 by Tcg]

Not only does your complaint not make sense, but I direct your attention to post#13 where there is far more said than I have done, about the apparent views of Mr. Hawkings regarding the subject of GOD. Perhaps you might like to complain about that post as well?

If you do really think that folk have it incorrect regarding Mr. Hawkings attitudes about GOD, I am keen to learn the truth of the matter, so please point us to where this information can be clearly obtained, or even provide a few quotes where Mr. Hawkings plainly shows that our understanding in relation to his attitude about GOD is incorrect.