What is God responsible for?

[Willum]

Many things were done in God's name:
But what is he responsible for?

When the Catholic Nazi Germany attempts a genocide, a man is blamed.
When Hebrews commit genocide on the Canaan, it is his will.

We have plagues, on Catholic countries, for example. The Dark Ages were committed in Yahweh's name. Were they?

Why would Yahweh plunge the civilization of Rome, with health, farming and sanitation, back into the primitive squalor of ancient Jerusalem, if so?

If not, why did he not stop such a terror? It seems to be in His purview.

How does one determine if an act is done in God's will, or men's will?
Does the Bible tell us?

Understanding that free will is a constraint - we can also understand that mob's and large numbers of people lose free will, does this fall into God's purview, then?

In short, how does one know what God is responsible for;
Any group decision?
A decision influenced by prayer?

The position is that presented by Romans 13:

Obey the rulers who have authority over you. Only God can give authority to anyone, and he puts these rulers in their places of power. 2 People who oppose the authorities are opposing what God has done, and they will be punished. 3 Rulers are a threat to evil people, not to good people. There is no need to be afraid of the authorities. Just do right, and they will praise you for it. 4 After all, they are Gods servants, and it is their duty to help you.

The position of the OP is: those atrocities committed by governments, God's will, and he is responsible for them.

[hoghead1]

[Replying to post 109 by marco]

God respects our free will and is not about to step in and do our work for us. It's like asking well, why didn't God just pump into my mind the answers to my chem. 101 test so that I could have gotten an A instead of an F? Had God done that, you would have learned nothing. God is here to help, not micromanage our lives.

Some years ago, I was in a jazz group that was supposed to make a promo for the local U. I guess our playing was not real great. So the professor of trumpet erased us from the tape and dubbed in himself playing all the trumpet parts. OK, but we, in the trumpets, learned nothing from this. We have to learn to do it ourselves, not expect Big Daddy to rescue us.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 11 by ttruscott]



[center]If it's not blasphemous, it's real[/center]

On what basis do you have this opinion?

I accept this as my opinion because since I experienced the Spiritual side of things I have looked for the least blasphemous and most logical expression of Christianity and this pov is part of the interpretation of reality and the Bible that fits my criteria.

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Question:

• 
  
  How is "least blasphemous" a criteria for reality?
  
  

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[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 107 by hoghead1]


[center]What some theists don't like, they don't believe. They would rather believe what they like, instead. It doesn't seem to matter if what they believe in is true or not, but what makes them happy to think about.[/center]

I reject traditional images of God as the Ruthless Moralist, Ruling Caesar, and Unmoved Mover because I find them too negative, presenting but a cold, unfeeling Deity. The universe is full of great beauty, and that tells me it was created by a God who has real feeling, real sensitivity.

Some people see the universe just as "full" of great evil.
Apparently, some people think that the evil of evils is that the past fades.

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Question:

• 
  
  You believe what you desire most. Does your desires affect reality? Or is it the other way around?
  
  

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[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 110 by hoghead1]



[center]
Theism = Speculation[/center]

I think that maybe you are going just on Scripture. I am not. The Bible is not a book of metaphysics, tells us very little about how God is built, just gives us conflicting snap shots. I am into speculative metaphysics.

That sounds like a lot of fun, for those so inclined.

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Question:

• 
  
  Do you believe any of these speculations of yours?
  
  

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[marco]

We have to learn to do it ourselves, not expect Big Daddy to rescue us.

I cannot see what part of my post you are addressing by telling me that God does not micromanage, as if I suggested he should. Your trumpeters were poor and could have learned from their mistakes but presumably the professor was trying to avoid embarrassment, rather than convey a message. In any event, this hardly parallels my example of infants in the Holocaust. They had no responsibility for their trumpeting. It is not a question of God's micromanagement but one of giving a slight indication that he is well and perhaps cares to a modest degree. Instead he gives the impression of being dead or callous.

[hoghead1]

[Replying to marco]

I certainly think you have a valid point. Just why would God let horrible things happen? My view is that God lures, does not coerce or force it. Otherwise, we would be but puppets. We have freedom, freedom of choice, and so God can't make our decisions for us. We have to decide for ourselves. When it comes to Hitler, there was some very bad decision-making on the part of the allies and also the German people which allowed Hitler to get into power. The blame falls on us for not doing more, not God. We simply chose, for whatever reason, not to actualize fully aims God provided that would have led to a more beautiful world.

[Monta]

[Replying to hoghead1]

"I certainly think you have a valid point. Just why would God let horrible things happen? My view is that God lures, does not coerce or force it. Otherwise, we would be but puppets. We have freedom, freedom of choice, and so God can't make our decisions for us. We have to decide for ourselves. When it comes to Hitler, there was some very bad decision-making on the part of the allies and also the German people which allowed Hitler to get into power. The blame falls on us for not doing more, not God. We simply chose, for whatever reason, not to actualize fully aims God provided that would have led to a more beautiful world."

Yes, we have to decide for ourselves and we decide and choose our rulers.

Currently as Obama is on his way out, thousands of tanks and millitary personnel are edging towards Russian border through Germany and Poland.
If they are going to do something stupid and Russia retaliates, can anyone give God a suggestion how to stop it?

[hoghead1]

[Replying to post 117 by Monta]

God will do the best she or he can to stop it. But God cannot override our freedom, the fact we have to decide for ourselves. God provides creative options to maximize beauty, but its up to us how far we will actualize them.

[marco]

[Replying to marco]

I certainly think you have a valid point. Just why would God let horrible things happen? My view is that God lures, does not coerce or force it. Otherwise, we would be but puppets. We have freedom, freedom of choice, and so God can't make our decisions for us. We have to decide for ourselves. When it comes to Hitler, there was some very bad decision-making on the part of the allies and also the German people which allowed Hitler to get into power. The blame falls on us for not doing more, not God. We simply chose, for whatever reason, not to actualize fully aims God provided that would have led to a more beautiful world.

Yes, the allies and others may have to take some responsibility for the war. They made bad decisions. It is something completely different when we are dealing with infants who made no bad decisions. The sins of the fathers should not be visited upon the sons, or on innocent infants who happened to be placed where they were. In fact, far from the sins of the fathers being the cause it would seem that it was the piety of the fathers and their adherence to God's word that got the infants their horrible fate. One would have thought that laissez faire from the deity was inappropriate here, however much he dislikes interfering. It seems there is no circumstance, in modern times, where he will take responsibility. Modern Sodoms flourish, deo volente.

[marco]

Yes, we have to decide for ourselves and we decide and choose our rulers.

This totally ignores my example. Infants cannot decide and when they are thrown into gas chambers, they need assistance. At what point does God exercise ANY responsibility?