Paradise on Earth

[onewithhim]

When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.

Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 173 by dio9]


[center]A yes or no please[/center]

I think it does a good job for a pre-scientific people. The progression of events is definitely correct as described .

Are you saying that you are a "pre-scientific" person?

In any case, you might not have understood my actual question. I didn't ask about pre-scientitic people, but yourself.

So, I ask you once again:

• Do you believe in the Genesis kind of creation as it is described in Genesis?
  In other words: Are you a "creationist"?

Are you even a Christian, because I can't tell right now by your answers. I'd have to guess what you mean by most of your answers.

You SEEM to think that Genesis is definitely correct as described.
Was that a YES to my rather direct "yes or no" kind of question?

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 175 by onewithhim]




[center]

One Bible, many opinions:
Part One[/center]

I said that it is God who decides what he is like. That doesn't mean that we can't understand his basic attributes and the way he does things.

I have an understanding of the god of the Bible, you have yours.
Now what?

Are all of our different opinions about the "nature of God" what really matters?

I would say, for example, that going on what the Bible says about the god.. he MIGHT just be an evil psychopath. And somehow, I don't think that you would agree with that opinion. I would even take a wild guess and state that you might have the opinion that the god is LOVING.. and so on...

Same Bible, different opinions.

Whataryagonnado?

We have one Bible, opinions, two.

[dio9]

[Replying to post 181 by Blastcat]

What you mean by" a Genesis kind of creation"?

I can't explain how from the fiery ball of earth flung out from the sun at the birth of our solar system we have life at all, let alone self conscious human life.

Am I a Christian?

Yes I believe in the God of Abraham Jesus and also what Buddha Krishna Lao Tzu Confucius and Zen teach us.
I am not limited to being exclusively Christian but I can't deny Christ either. Call me a Zen Christian , I like that, lets just say God is in my bones what the Hindu's call "suchness" that's just what it is.
Keepin' it real bro. Peace happy new year.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 183 by dio9]



[center]
A yes or no please
Part two: No can do?[/center]

What you mean by" a Genesis kind of creation"?

The creationists who take Genesis quite literally as a science text book.
That kind of creation.

The one where the god says a word and it all happens, light, I suppose.. then, some "days" that could each be "ten thousand years" each ( ? ) to create humans and all other life forms.

You know, the Biblical account of genesis:

Genesis 1King James Version (KJV)

• "1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
  2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
  3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
  4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness."

And so on.... The story you said had all the science right.

It was a yes or no kind of question.
I'm still left with no answer.

Is the question too complex?

I can't explain how from the fiery ball of earth flung out from the sun at the birth of our solar system we have life at all, let alone self conscious human life.

I'm not asking you to pretend to explain anything other than your own beliefs.
Does the origins of the universe and life on our planet have ANYTHING to do with your "religious" beliefs?

Am I a Christian?

Yes I believe in the God of Abraham Jesus and also what Buddha Krishna Lao Tzu Confucius and Zen teach us.
I am not limited to being exclusively Christian but I can't deny Christ either. Call me a Zen Christian , I like that, lets just say God is in my bones what the Hindu's call "suchness" that's just what it is.

Ok, you are a "qualified" Christian. You put the word "Zen" in front of that.

I think that since there are maybe tens of thousands of qualified kinds of Christianity out there, that yours kind also qualifies as a "Christianity", too.

You "believe" in all kinds of things. Like Christian gods, Chinese and Hindu religious teachers, quite possibly a lot of what that they teach, and oriental religious practices, like zen. That's quite a list. It seems to me that you are quite happy to ... believe pretty much anything that even remotely looks like "religious" thinking.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, of course. I'm just guessing.

I don't know what you mean by "believe", though.. Do you believe that all of that mix up there is all TRUE?

"Suchness" is just the way that it is?
Well, then, if that's true, then I'm with you.

I believe that what is, is what it is.
That sound like wisdom to you?

God is "in your bones"?
If the word "god" is a metaphor ( for whatever you might believe ), and if god isn't really IN your bones in any literal sense, then you are making a metaphor out of two other metaphors.

To me, your ideas are more in the way of poetry than anything else. Hard to understand RATIONALLY. But it's pretty poetry, anyway.

I can guarantee you that I don't have a clue what those lovely words are supposed to mean. Reality is reality and you believe in a god of some kind?

Why do you leave me to keep guessing at your meaning?


Are your ideas about religion so vague as to preclude a straight answer to what I thought were pretty simple questions?

Are you really that bemused?

[dio9]

[Replying to post 184 by Blastcat]

As I understand the philosophy of Zen , what I say doesn't matter. You have to answer your own questions.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 185 by dio9]

[center]


Dio9's idea don't matter at all... ( not even that one )
Part One[/center]

As I understand the philosophy of Zen , what I say doesn't matter. You have to answer your own questions.

So much for holding up your end of any debate.

You ARE in a debate, right?
In the debate part of the forum?

Do you think a Koan is really going to help you out in a debate?

[onewithhim]

The polar bear and the lion and the viper were originally created as tame and friendly to humans.

I would like to see a piece of Scripture that says the viper and the polar bear are harmless.

It was after the Flood that God said humans could eat animals, and the animals became afraid of humans & even turned on each other.

Then by creating the Flood God changed good into bad, so what was the idea in doing that? You punish bad, surely, rather than good. And are we saying that in pre-Noah days lions went around eating grass. Hmmmm.

After Armageddon the fierce animals will be tame again and "eat straw like the bull." (Isaiah 11:6-9; Isaiah 65:25)

Volcanoes might not be such a danger if people would not make cities right next to them.

It is an absurdity that the ideal is vegetarianism, and later centuries will move towards us all eating grass, for I suppose we won't be allowed lamb and mint sauce. Grass on Tuesday, grass on Sunday - it sounds too good to be true.

And yes, of course man is silly living on a planet that has volcanoes. Bad choice. But then, pre-Flood, volcanoes were probably all benign. Does Scripture say that as well?

(1) I didn't say that the viper and polar bear ARE harmless. I said that they WILL BE harmless, starting with Jesus' Thousand-Year Reign.

"Then the wolf shall be a guest of the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid [baby goat]; the calf and the young lion shall browse together, with a little child to guide them. The cow and the bear shall be neighbors, together their young shall rest; the lion shall eat hay like the ox. The baby shall play by the cobra's den, and the child lay his hand on the adder's lair. There shall be no harm or ruin on all my holy mountain; for the earth shall be filled with knowledge of the LORD [Jehovah], as water covers the sea." (Isaiah 11:6-9, NAB)

(2) Lions probably did eat grass. The Bible doesn't say, but I'm sure it was not God's will that animals kill each other, and kill humans too. And I have wondered about the reason God allowed humans to begin eating animals.....People must have been so nasty in their most inner selves that Jehovah deemed it acceptable to let them kill animals. Humans are basically blood thirsty. That is my take on it. Anyone who regrets not being able to kill animals will be out of luck under Jesus' rule. They'll have to get used to a vegetarian diet real fast! Why do you think humans will eat only GRASS? I didn't say that. There are so many wonderful things to eat that are plant-based! We'll also have eggs and butter, and just endless varieties of fruits and vegetables.

(3) Wouldn't lives be secure if people didn't build cities right next to volcanoes? The same as building next to the sea shore. People in Louisiana re-built their homes right where they had previously been right after Katrina. People on the coast of New Jersey rebuilt their homes right where they used to be, after that big hurricane that went through there. Stupid? Really. To build homes right in the way of harm, esp. having been through it already, is idiocy. It is PEOPLE who bring ruin on themselves, not God. People should build far away from harm's way, and with building materials that can withstand earthquakes.

[onewithhim]

I'm wondering why people don't really get into this discussion. What could be better than Paradise on Earth? Are people so brain-dead after having been deluged with the idea of heaven for everybody that they can't relate to a physical existence? How do we relate to a SPIRIT existence? I don't. Give me grass and trees and animals and mansions made out of stone and cedar and glass and marble! Give me a relationship with a man. Give me fountains and waterfalls and rivers and pools.

and food!

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 188 by onewithhim]

I think because it is foreign to what many have been taught by their religious leaders. They are thus much more comfortable with the idea of heaven (which has been taught is the destiny of all humans) rather than the biblical teaching that humans were made for this our planet earth.

When an idea is completely new to them, people tend to reject it, even if essentially its appealing.

[tam]

Or maybe people (who love Christ and God) care more about being with them (however and wherever) than they care about any of that other stuff.


So that NOT being with Christ and with God is UNAPPEALING. At least for those who want to be with them.


Just a thought.


Peace to you both,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy