Is Hell and Those Who Will Go There Eternal?

[barney]

Shalom,

In Mark 9:43-44, et al, we find Scriptures spoken by Jesus Himself, of an ETERNAL HELL, and the LOST who will enter it, in direct reference to a condition where THEIR (personal pronoun) WORM dieth not. While, the thoughts of an Eternal Hell to many of today's Biblical Scholars and Theologians is rapidly becoming 'politically incorrect', the Word of God begs to differ with them nonetheless.

Mark 9:43 (KJV)
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Mark 9:44 (KJV)
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

To this end, the premise of this article is NOT to prove an Eternal HELL, which is self evident from simple Scriptural understanding, but rather to shed light on the Eternal WORN that will exist in this unimaginable place of Eternal Punishment.

It takes a greater work of Scriptural gymnastics hammered on the anvil of disbelief to DISPROVE an Eternal Hell, then the Child like FAITH to accept God's sovereign omnipotent WISDOM and authority.

Many have speculated that these aforementioned WORMS are nothing more than some sort of demonic creatures that will devour the flesh of the damned and doomed mankind during their temporal destruction in the eternal and infernal place of Torment. Meanwhile, it is equally presumed that the Lake of Fire is only designed for Satan, his 1/3 Fallen Cohorts, the man AC, and the False Prophet.

However, this is not at all what Scripture reveals, the Bible states that the Righteous will view the 'carcasses' of those who have transgressed against God in a place where the fire is unquenched and THEIR (personal pronoun) WORN shall NEVER die.

Isaiah 66:24 (KJV)
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

To this end then, WHO are these WORMS that shall NEVER DIE which Jesus reveals in Mk. 9:44, et al?

The following Scriptures makes it perfectly clear by direct language SYMBOLIZING who these ETERNAL WORMS are most likely to be, even Jacob himself was addressed by the Lord as a WORM.

Job 25:6 (KJV)
6 How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?

Psalms 22:6 (KJV)
6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

Isaiah 41:14 (KJV)
14 Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.

What then can easily be deduced from the above supposition, is that MAN is symbolized by a WORM and respecting Mk. 9:43-44 spoken directly by Jesus Himself, cited above, is referring to the LOST without HOPE in CHRIST.

Therefore, with direct respect to the ETERNAL FLAME, Matt. 25:41 does NOT imply exclusivity with relationship to those who will be deposited into 'Everlasting' Fire.

Matthew 25:41 (KJV)
41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Nowhere in the above Passage is the word ONLY implied with respect to Satan and his Angels... simply PREPARED (made ready). Moreover, this Passage declares that those who have been judged unworthy from among the nations (those on the left hand) will ALSO be cast into the Everlasting Fire.

Meanwhile, Rev.19:20 reveals that the Beast and the False Prophet will be deposited there as well. The Beast and the False Prophet are NOT once mentioned in Matt. 25:41, in exception to exclusivity...for ONLY Satan and his Angels.

Also, Rev. 20:14-15 reveals that subsequent to the Great White Throne Judgment of the DEAD (Second Death) will be deposited in the Everlasting Lake of Fire as well.

To reiterate, in Mk. 9:43-48 Jesus is indeed referring back to the Isaiah prophecy of 66:23-24.

Meanwhile, with respect to the WORM that DIETH NOT. Therefore, if it can shown where something that will NEVER DIE (even Christians are addressed in Scripture relevant to this SAME language - Jn. 11:26, et al.) is indeed NOT INFINITE or Eternal, then you have my undivided attention as well as a realistic defense for your concern, otherwise...

To this end, the KEY to understanding this prophecy is quite simple...those DEAD BODIES who will be in the (their) FIRE that is NOT QUENCED (Eternal Hell) are all those who have transgressed against the LORD:

Isaiah 66:23-24 (KJV)
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Therefore, Jesus WARNS the grammatical antecedents ETERNAL WORM(s) - those transgressing against the LORD - of Mk. 43, 45 and 47, NOT to go to the place of ETERNAL HELL where THEIR Worm Dies NOT.

As such, the antecedent possessive personal pronoun THEIR with respect to the LXX (greek Septuagint), referring to the CARCASES/DEAD BODIES, is in EXACT agreement with Isaiah 66:24 (the Worm that shall NOT DIE - CARCASE) and the ETERNAL WORM that Jesus revealed in Mk. 44, 47, and 48.

"...In this sentence, the greek (in the septuagint, it is presumably the personal pronoun) their refers back to what? The answer is "carcasses" ("dead bodies")."

Moreover, the POSSESSOR of the ETERNAL WORM (Dead Body) is what is 'Spiritually' INSIDE of the Dead Body/Eternal Worm. To this end, when in Job 25:6, Psalms 22:6, and Isaiah 41:14 when God calls man a WORM He was referring to the 'physical body'. However, with respect to natural man there is ALSO a Soul/Spirit that dwells within the 'temporal' WORM.

Meanwhile, it is duely noted that WORMS eat decaying matter, i.e. dead bodies. However, the ETERNAL WORMS that BELONG (Ownership) to those who have transgressed against the LORD, per Scripture, are NOT 'external' consuming worms separate of the carcase, but rather the DEAD BODIES/CARCASES themselves, that will NEVER Die.

Therefore, if the WORM/DEAD BODY is ETERNAL, then so must its HOST OWNER (THEIR) that 'dwells within' be as well. If the OWNER (Spirit/Soul inside of the ETERNAL WORM) was to vanish away, then Eternal Hell would have Eternal Worms/DEAD BODIES with NO OWNERS. Nonetheless, below is what/where these ETERNAL WORMS will originate from - the DEAD BODIES that will NEVER DIE.

Dan. 12:2, Jn. 5:28-29 and Rev. 20:5 makes if perfectly clear that there will be a Resurrection of the DEAD in Sin (the Resurrection of the Damned).

John 5:28 (KJV)
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Seeing therefore, that the former Carcases of these Damned and Dead resurrected individuals have long since been consumed by other parasites that are/were NOT ETERNAL (natural), then God has/will prepared (created) a NEW BODY for these doomed TRANSGRESSORS as well. Rev. 20:11-15, reveals that the DEAD will come out of their graves (see Jn. 5:28-29 above) and their resurrected DEAD BODIES (newly created - ETERNAL WORMS) will STAND before God to be Judged for THEIR transgressing against the LORD.

Revelation 20:11-15 (KJV)
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

barney

[JehovahsWitness]

JW the problem I have with that is you are still using the word aion/olam to get the word everlasting and then using everlasting to mean something that is without end.

First lets get a bit of clarity on the words here. Mathew 25: 41 (the initial verse under discussion) does NOT use the word OLAM (I'll get to that word later) it uses the famous "aion"

AION

Aion Principally, means

• AION: a time period of indefinite or indeterminate length, a period of remote, but not endless, time; a time period of undefined length because of such period being endless in duration, long lasting (Ro 16:25; 2Ti 1:9; Tit 1:2) and everlasting.

[that] which exists in the world under conditions of time" - As R. C. Trench states in Synonyms of the New Testament (London, 1961, p. 203)

Greek word ai-on (plural, ai-ones) [...] [a]space of time clearly defined and marked out, epoch, age, and also lifetime, life, or age, generation. Since an epoch, or age, can begin and end or it can go on forever, it follows that ai-on could refer to a period of time that is endless, though having a beginning" -- Bible Encylopedia Insight on the Scriptures Vol I p. 57

So it seems that an aion is basically a period of time. One which has a beginnng and and end we can know... or a period of time that can go on forever. Like a piece of string as long as it starts is a piece of sting. It can be a piece of string we can't SEE the end of because its so long, a piece of string we can't see the end of because it disapears around a corner or a really, really, r e a l l y long piece of sting that has no end. In the case of the latter, its still a piece of string. If it didn't have a beginning it wouldn't be a piece of anything, it would just be string, but its the beginning that defines it not its end.

In short aion CAN mean something without end. You said we are "then using everlasting to mean something that is without end" but that is what everlasting means: something without end. So the only question is, can aion mean something without end? and it seems that it can.

Everlasting:





OLAM

I'm going to copy-paste a comment from a friend of mine on this word (I'm sure he won't mind)

Many lexicons and dictionaries would have shown you that OLAMs DENOTATION is of an unknown length of time and NOT forever. It can be used of something that is to last forever but in itself the word can only *imply* eternity.

Witnesses accept the meaning of the word as given in standard Hebrew Lexicons. Here is what their reference work "Insight on the Scriptures" states:

"The Hebrew word 'oh lam carries the thought of indefinite or uncertain time. Lexicographer Gesenius defines it as meaning "hidden time, i.e. obscure and long, of which the beginning or end is uncertain or indefinite." (A Hebrew and English Lexicon of the OT, translated by E. Robinson, 1836, p. 746) Accordingly, expressions such as "time indefinite" (Ps 25:6), "indefinitely lasting" (Hab 3:6), "of old" (Ge 6:4), "a long time ago," "of long ago" (Jos 24:2; Pr 22:28; 23:10), and "long-lasting" (Ec 12:5) appropriately convey the thought of the original-language term. The word 'oh lam is at times associated with that which is everlasting...However, the Hebrew expression 'oh lam does not in itself mean "forever." It often refers to things that have an end, but the period of such things' existence can be said to be to time indefinite' because the time of their end is not then specified."--it-2 pp. 1102-1103

The context and other parallel texts must be referred to in order to determine whether the sense of OLAM is to be understood as eternity or just an indefinitely long period of time in any specific occurrence.

[pneuma]

Shalom pneuma,

You have now degenerated in your despotism of trying to prove that the greek 'aion' is always used as a FIXED meaning - to calling those who disagree with you a LIAR. Following is your direct quote:

"By doing this you hurt your own cause, for you come across as someone who lies about what another says in order to support your own doctrine.

I have NOT implied such a NONE PROFESSIONAL name calling mentality to you even though I disagreed with your unreasonable and theological unsupportable suppositions...

Therefore, let it be posted to ALL readers that any further correspondance that you may submit respective of my publications - I will NO LONGER kindly reciprocate by answering your request.

When you choose to behave BADLY and intentionally attack others by using personal derogatory slander to bolster your opinions, then productive theological reasoning has come to an end.

My correspondances to you were in GOOD FAITH - it is sad that you feel you must call others a LIAR in order to support your opinions.

I DO NOT appreciate nor tolerate being called a LIAR and likewise I do not think you would either.

You were neither invited nor encouraged to call me a LIAR...

barney

Actually Barney this is what I said


Your so stuck on what you want to believe you misrepresent everything I have said and are doing so seemingly on purpose. By doing this you hurt your own cause, for you come across as someone who lies about what another says in order to support your own doctrine.


Saying you are misrepresenting what I have said and that by doing so you come across as a liar is NOT calling you a liar.

It just means you come across as a liar because you have been misrepresenting what I have said.

[pneuma]

JW the problem I have with that is you are still using the word aion/olam to get the word everlasting and then using everlasting to mean something that is without end.

First lets get a bit of clarity on the words here. Mathew 25: 41 (the initial verse under discussion) does NOT use the word OLAM (I'll get to that word later) it uses the famous "aion"

AION

Aion Principally, means

• AION: a time period of indefinite or indeterminate length, a period of remote, but not endless, time; a time period of undefined length because of such period being endless in duration, long lasting (Ro 16:25; 2Ti 1:9; Tit 1:2) and everlasting.

[that] which exists in the world under conditions of time" - As R. C. Trench states in Synonyms of the New Testament (London, 1961, p. 203)

Greek word ai-on (plural, ai-ones) [...] [a]space of time clearly defined and marked out, epoch, age, and also lifetime, life, or age, generation. Since an epoch, or age, can begin and end or it can go on forever, it follows that ai-on could refer to a period of time that is endless, though having a beginning" -- Bible Encylopedia Insight on the Scriptures Vol I p. 57

So it seems that an aion is basically a period of time. One which has a beginnng and and end we can know... or a period of time that can go on forever. Like a piece of string as long as it starts is a piece of sting. It can be a piece of string we can't SEE the end of because its so long, a piece of string we can't see the end of because it disapears around a corner or a really, really, r e a l l y long piece of sting that has no end. In the case of the latter, its still a piece of string. If it didn't have a beginning it wouldn't be a piece of anything, it would just be string, but its the beginning that defines it not its end.

In short aion CAN mean something without end. You said we are "then using everlasting to mean something that is without end" but that is what everlasting means: something without end. So the only question is, can aion mean something without end? and it seems that it can.

Everlasting:





OLAM

I'm going to copy-paste a comment from a friend of mine on this word (I'm sure he won't mind)

Many lexicons and dictionaries would have shown you that OLAMs DENOTATION is of an unknown length of time and NOT forever. It can be used of something that is to last forever but in itself the word can only *imply* eternity.

Witnesses accept the meaning of the word as given in standard Hebrew Lexicons. Here is what their reference work "Insight on the Scriptures" states:

"The Hebrew word 'oh lam carries the thought of indefinite or uncertain time. Lexicographer Gesenius defines it as meaning "hidden time, i.e. obscure and long, of which the beginning or end is uncertain or indefinite." (A Hebrew and English Lexicon of the OT, translated by E. Robinson, 1836, p. 746) Accordingly, expressions such as "time indefinite" (Ps 25:6), "indefinitely lasting" (Hab 3:6), "of old" (Ge 6:4), "a long time ago," "of long ago" (Jos 24:2; Pr 22:28; 23:10), and "long-lasting" (Ec 12:5) appropriately convey the thought of the original-language term. The word 'oh lam is at times associated with that which is everlasting...However, the Hebrew expression 'oh lam does not in itself mean "forever." It often refers to things that have an end, but the period of such things' existence can be said to be to time indefinite' because the time of their end is not then specified."--it-2 pp. 1102-1103

The context and other parallel texts must be referred to in order to determine whether the sense of OLAM is to be understood as eternity or just an indefinitely long period of time in any specific occurrence.

And again I will point out God is FROM everlasting TO everlasting.

This word is in connection with God the same as aion in Mt.25

And it shows God is much more then everlasting as He is FROM everlasting TO everlasting.

The Greek has words for something that is without end JW, so why did the writers not use one of those words instead of aion?

We use the same type of language today, how many time have you stood in a line and said to yourself this line goes on forever? Did you really mean that the line would never end or was it just because it was taking so long it seemed like it would never end?

[pneuma]

Scripture testifies that the aions have a beginning.

Hebrews 1:2
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds/aions.

The aions were MADE.



1 Corinthians 2:7
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world/aion unto our glory:

BEFORE the aion.



2 Timothy 1:9
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world/aionion began,



BEFORE the aionion BEGAN.






Scripture testifies that the aions have an end.

Hebrews 9:26
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world/aion hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

The aion ENDS



1 Corinthians 10:11
11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world/aion are come.

The aion ENDS



Matthew 24:3
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world/aion?



The aion ENDS.


Now you guys can argue with me whether the aions end or not but scripture testifies that they do. And that is good enough for me.

[JehovahsWitness]

BEFORE the aionion BEGAN.

The aion ENDS.

Now you guys can argue with me whether the aions end or not but scripture testifies that they do. And that is good enough for me.

Yes, I agree with you, scriptures most definitely DO testify that aions end. But not necessarily always. There is no "you guys" there's just me (I don't know what Barney is arguing) but I am NOT saying that aion always has no end, I'm saying that it sometimes has no end. In most cases in the bible it definitely does end, whether we can see what that end is or not. The word basically means "an age(s)"

a time period of indefinite* or indeterminate* length

"Greek word ai-on (plural, ai-ones) [...] [a]space of time clearly defined and marked out, epoch, age, and also lifetime, life, or age, generation. Since an epoch, orage, can begin and end or it can go on forever, it follows that ai-on could refer to a period of time that is endless, though having a beginning" -- Bible Encylopedia Insight on the Scriptures Vol I p. 57

*Just because you don't necessarily know how long something is, does not mean it doesn't end; So IT CAN (and often does) END. ('scuse the CAPS but you seem to have missed this point). As a period of time AION can indeed have a definite end. Sometimes an end we can see, sometimes an end we can't see. But sometimes no end at all.

I am not arguing that aion ALWAYS has no end, I am saying sometimes it has not end or like the shopping line, no end in sight. At no point in this thread have I argued that aion does not begin, so your sciptures above do not contradict my point (perhaps they were for Barnay's attention). I'll post about Psalms 103 when I have more time.

The Greek has words for something that is without end JW, so why did the writers not use one of those words instead of aion?

Because for the most part the the end in question is implied, undefinable, thus aion becomes a suitable equavalent of olam. Let's take the example of the hope of everlasting life promised to humans [aionios zoe - John 17:3] This is not a promise of indestructability, guaranteed endlessness. So depending on what the person does, that "end" may not be there at all or may well be there but when it is is "hidden" or unknown. It would be inappropriate to say use the word Greek adjective, a-idi-os, specifically means eternal or everlasting. (Ro 1:20; Jude 6, NW, RS, AT) since it would imply that there CAN be no end.


Regards,
JW

[pneuma]

Yes, I agree with you, scriptures most definitely DO testify that aions end. But not necessarily always. There is no "you guys" there's just me (I don't know what Barney is arguing) but I am NOT saying that aion always has no end, I'm saying that it sometimes has no end. In most cases in the bible it definitely does end, whether we can see what that end is or not. The word basically means "an age(s)"

JW where in scripture does it say that aion never ends? Scripture defines the meaning of the words NOT dictionaries or concordances, as they are just interpretations of men of what they THINK the words mean. And being men they often ADD their own understanding of the words according to their doctrine.

Scripture tells us aion has a beginning and an end, they do NOT tell us that aion never ends.

*Just because you don't necessarily know how long something is, does not mean it doesn't end; So IT CAN (and often does) END. ('scuse the CAPS but you seem to have missed this point). As a period of time AION can indeed have a definite end. Sometimes an end we can see, sometimes an end we can't see. But sometimes no end at all.

I am not arguing that aion ALWAYS has no end, I am saying sometimes it has not end or like the shopping line, no end in sight. At no point in this thread have I argued that aion does not begin, so your sciptures above do not contradict my point (perhaps they were for Barnay's attention). I'll post about Psalms 103 when I have more time.

I am glad you see that aion has a beginning and an end JW.

The part I disagree with is But sometimes no end at all, because no where in scripture does it say or imply aion is never ending.

And if it sometimes has no end JW does that mean we get to pick and choose when it has no end according to our own doctrine? Because that is exactly what it leaves us with. IMO that is just playing with words in order for people to make the scriptures conform to their doctinre instead of people conforming their doctrine to the scriptures.

Because for the most part the the end in question is implied, undefinable, thus aion becomes a suitable equavalent of olam. Let's take the example of the hope of everlasting life promised to humans [aionios zoe - John 17:3] This is not a promise of indestructability, guaranteed endlessness. So depending on what the person does, that "end" may not be there at all or may well be there but when it is is "hidden" or unknown. It would be inappropriate to say use the word Greek adjective, a-idi-os, specifically means eternal or everlasting. (Ro 1:20; Jude 6, NW, RS, AT) since it would imply that there CAN be no end.

However we are not talking about aidios JW we are talking about aion and its adjective aionion. So far NO proof has been given from scripture that shows aion is sometimes never ending. However, I have shown they do start and end, which you agree with.


So tell me JW why you believe aion sometimes means never ending?

[JehovahsWitness]

The part I disagree with is But sometimes no end at all, because no where in scripture does it say or imply aion is never ending.

#QUESTION: Is there anything in scripture to imply Aion(s) can be never ending?

Yes; while in most cases in the bible an AION definitely does end (whether we can see what that end is or not) however, the word basically means "an age(s)" and by implication an AION (age/epoch) CAN be "everlasting".

When Jesus spoke of aionios sin, contrasting it with sin that can be forgiven the implication is evidently that this catatory of sin is "everlasting" or without possibility of forgiveness.

Truly I say to YOU that all things will be forgiven the sons of men, no matter what sins and blasphemies they blasphemously commit. 29 However, whoever blasphemes against the holy spirit has no forgiveness forever, but is guilty of everlasting [aionios] sin." - NWT

Furthermore, humans are promised AIONIOS life, which is contrasted with that which is temporal; implying that this type of life at least has the possibility of being unending.

Furthermore, the world is passing away and so is its desire, but he that does the will of God remains forever.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him will not perish , but have aionios life.

Again, this is not to say the word means "unending" it does not it means "of the age(s)" but it would be unscripturally restrictive to say that it MUST have an end. In view of the above and to respect the full scope of the word as reflected by its hebrew equivalent of "unseen", in context one can say no more than it might have and and it might not.

[pneuma]

#QUESTION: Is there anything in scripture to imply Aion(s) can be never ending?

Yes; while in most cases in the bible an AION definitely does end (whether we can see what that end is or not) however, the word basically means "an age(s)" and by implication an AION (age/epoch) CAN be "everlasting".

When Jesus spoke of aionios sin, contrasting it with sin that can be forgiven the implication is evidently that this catatory of sin is "everlasting" or without possibility of forgiveness.


MARK 3:28, 29 wrote:
Truly I say to YOU that all things will be forgiven the sons of men, no matter what sins and blasphemies they blasphemously commit. 29 However, whoever blasphemes against the holy spirit has no forgiveness forever, but is guilty of everlasting [aionios] sin." - NWT

A literal reading has it

28 Verily I say to you, that all the sins shall be forgiven to the sons of men, and evil speakings with which they might speak evil, 29 but whoever may speak evil in regard to the Holy Spirit hath not forgiveness -- to the age, but is in danger of age-during judgment;'

Another thing you might want to look into is the word NEVER, which in the translation you are using is FOREVER.

KJV says

29But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

The word never (or in your case forever) is aion, which matches up with the literal reading "hath not forgiveness to the age".

It says nothing about people never ever being forgiven JW. If those who blaspheme the Holy Ghost are never forgiven why does it go on to say they are in DANGER of age-during/aionion judgment?

Surely one who is never forgiven would be MORE THEN in DANGER of God judgment.

Furthermore, humans are promised AIONIOS life, which is contrasted with that which is temporal; implying that this type of life at least has the possibility of being unending.

No aionios life is not in contrast with that which is temporal, it is in contrast with the life of the age we had while we where dead in trespasses and sin.

Our life in Christ is much more then aionios life, just as His life spans all aions so to does our life in Him.

1 JOHN 2:17 wrote:
Furthermore, the world is passing away and so is its desire, but he that does the will of God remains forever.

JOHN 3:16 wrote:
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him will not perish , but have aionios life.

Again, this is not to say the word means "unending" it does not it means "of the age(s)" but it would be unscripturally restrictive to say that it MUST have an end. In view of the above and to respect the full scope of the word as reflected by its hebrew equivalent of "unseen", in context one can say no more than it might have and and it might not.

A literal reading for each scripture you provided.

17 and the world doth pass away, and the desire of it, and he who is doing the will of God, he doth remain -- to the age.


15 that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during, 16 for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.


Nothing in those scripture refers to aion or aionios as never ending, they are talking about having life with Christ in the age that is to come.

So what is the life of the age with Christ?


Gods people are to rule and reign with Him for a 1000 years. It is obvious that a 1000 years is of limited time.

[JehovahsWitness]

Well, they are very interesting interpretations, and while I cannot agree with them totally I must say I have this discussion has encouraged me to look closely at the greek terms.

We probably wont see eye to eye on everything although I do agree with you for th e most part.

Thanks for an envigorating discussion

Respect
JW

[pneuma]

Well, they are very interesting interpretations, and while I cannot agree with them totally I must say I have this discussion has encouraged me to look closely at the greek terms.

We probably wont see eye to eye on everything although I do agree with you for th e most part.

Thanks for an envigorating discussion

Respect
JW

Your welcome JW, I enjoyed the discussion also.

God bless