$$

[imhereforyou]

He created all that is, but needs your hard earned money to build a church or pay his people?
Why?
Why can't God create a church from the ground without your money (or time, for that matter)?

Surely the spontaneous creation of a building with all the plumbing and electrical needed would be enough to convince most, if not all, of his existence. But we don't see that - we see faces of Jesus in grilled cheeses or Doritos. No...no spontaneous church creation - that requires your money.

The typical response is "God doesn't need your money, you need to give your money to God" or the like. But if you're a Christian, and the love of money is the root of all evil, shouldn't you not be so concerned with your $ that it is a challenge for you to give it up to build a church or pay the electric bill?

So what's the real reason such a being needs your money to further his kingdom?

[Tcg]

Yes you did you claimed my statement did not address the OP "in any way"...

I stand corrected. I did make that claim and it is supported by the fact that you have yet to explain how God built your church's buildings without money. Care to address the OP and provide evidence that your church's buildings were built without money?

[JehovahsWitness]

Yes you did you claimed my statement did not address the OP "in any way"...

I stand corrected. I did make that claim and it is supported by the fact that you have yet to explain how God built your church's buildings without money. Care to address the OP and provide evidence that your church's buildings were built without money?

I've asked you to present evidence that your church has built church buildings without money. Your inability to do so indicates that what you have presented is not related to the OP.

Since I did not claim church has built church buildings without money why are you asking me to present evidence of such a thing?

Your inability to do so indicates that what you have presented is not related to the OP.

That is like claiming my inability to provide evidence I can fly proves a comment about eagles is unrelated to a post about birds. You are simply drawing illogical conclusions from faulty reasoning. Since I have explained in my original post and repeated above why I chose to address the issues raised by the OP rather than answer loaded questions, your taking the same approach as the OP is most unconstructive.


Feel free to reread my original answer. If you have anything to ask about what it does say rather than what it does not, I will surely consider responding.

ORIGINAL RESPONSE
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 849#910849

[Tcg]

Since I did not claim church has built church buildings without money why are you asking me to present evidence of such a thing?

Then your claim is totally irrelevant to the OP.

Feel free to reread my original answer.

No need. I remember quite clearly what you said and the fact that it doesn't address the OP. You've admitted as much above.

[JehovahsWitness]

From the OP:

$$
Why does God need it?

'Cause preachers need jets.

Well I've been preaching for over 35 years, much of that full time and as yet nobody has offered me a jet...a few slammed doors in my face but no jets

[Tcg]

Well I've been preaching for over 35 years, much of that full time and as yet nobody has offered me a jet...a few slammed doors in my face but no jets.

The method of transportation is of little consequence. You undoubtedly used some method of transportation to get from one door to door preaching campaign to the next. The amount of money used to acquire said transportation doesn't change the fact that some money was used. You were simply willing to forgo the comfort and opulence other preachers require.

[JehovahsWitness]

The Body and Bride of His Son (made of many members, both men and women)... this is the Church. This Bride is also called the New Jerusalem, a city made... again... of PEOPLE.

Yes this is a point worth noting and I would agree with you. While "church" has indeed come in modern times to refer to the physical building, it can also refer to the believers.

[Tcg]

Yes this is a point worth noting and I would agree with you. While "church" has indeed come in modern times to refer to the physical building, it can also refer to the believers.

Given that the OP contains this line:

"Surely the spontaneous creation of a building with all the plumbing and electrical needed would be enough to convince most, if not all, of his existence."

It is quite clear that the OP refers to a physical building. While discussing other possible meanings of the word, "church" may be interesting, it is not a discussion that addresses the clear meaning of the OP.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 2 by JoeyKnothead]

I was just kidding by the way about the jets. I don't expect anyone to give me anything at all when I preach.

Just wanting to clarify.

Regards,

JW

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 28 by JehovahsWitness]

The question remains. What mode of transportation do you use to get to your preaching campaigns? Does God provide the transportation you use without the use of money or is money involved? The answer to these questions address the issue raised in the OP. What you do or do not expect to receive as a result of your preaching is irrelevant to this discussion.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 5:

False dilemma bro. Option 3 - he wants us to play a part.

If it is, you mean God, a god, or a whole bunch of 'em, I challenge you to show you speak truth in this regard.

1st challenge.

1st challenge... MODERATOR!