#1 Jesus on hell

[Wootah]

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?v ... 18%3A21-35

21 Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”

22 Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven. 23 Therefore the kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24 And when he had begun to settle accounts, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents. 25 But as he was not able to pay, his master commanded that he be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and that payment be made. 26 The servant therefore fell down before him, saying, ‘Master, have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ 27 Then the master of that servant was moved with compassion, released him, and forgave him the debt.

28 “But that servant went out and found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and he laid hands on him and took him by the throat, saying, ‘Pay me what you owe!’ 29 So his fellow servant fell down [a]at his feet and begged him, saying, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ 30 And he would not, but went and threw him into prison till he should pay the debt. 31 So when his fellow servants saw what had been done, they were very grieved, and came and told their master all that had been done. 32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.

35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother [c]his trespasses.”

Jesus tells a parable where the master actually tortures the unforgiving servant until he pays all that was due to him and after the parable says God will do this to each of us if we do not forgive each other.

* You can't torture a dead person or an annihilated person, so we know we have to be alive to be tortured.
* We can't pay our debt against God so we know the punishment is eternal.

How is that not a judgement of hell that supports traditional doctrine?

[PinSeeker]

Satan is as active as ever.

Satan cannot stop the spread of the Gospel to the nations. He cannot.

He already has!!

Well, yes, he was able to in Old Testament times, before the advent of Christ Jesus. But not since. God is growing His kingdom, and will not stop until He has made it complete. Nothing can thwart His purposes.

Grace and peace to you.

[myth-one.com]

Satan is as active as ever.

Satan cannot stop the spread of the Gospel to the nations. He cannot.

He already has!!

Well, yes, he was able to in Old Testament times, before the advent of Christ Jesus. But not since. God is growing His kingdom, and will not stop until He has made it complete. Nothing can thwart His purposes.

Grace and peace to you.

One cannot spread the gospel if they do not know the gospel.

Do you know the gospel?

Is nonbelievers suffering everlasting conscious torment part of your gospel message?

[PinSeeker]

One cannot spread the gospel if they do not know the gospel.

Actually, God can spread the Gospel ~ through the work of His Spirit ~ through folks to folks in many different ways. He can even use His enemies to do so. But generally, I agree.

Do you know the gospel?

Yes.

Is nonbelievers suffering everlasting conscious torment part of your gospel message?

Well that's not good news, so no, that's not part of my good news (gospel) message. I hope it's not part of anybody's gospel, because it's certainly not the Gospel of Christ. But it is true...

Grace and peace to you.

[myth-one.com]

One cannot spread the gospel if they do not know the gospel.

Actually, God can spread the Gospel ~ through the work of His Spirit ~ through folks to folks in many different ways. He can even use His enemies to do so. But generally, I agree.

Do you know the gospel?

Yes.

Is nonbelievers suffering everlasting conscious torment part of your gospel message?

Well that's not good news, so no, that's not part of my good news (gospel) message. I hope it's not part of anybody's gospel, because it's certainly not the Gospel of Christ. But it is true...

Grace and peace to you.

So in spreading the gospel you have never told anyone that nonbelievers are doomed to suffer everlasting conscious torment?

[PinSeeker]

So in spreading the gospel you have never told anyone that nonbelievers are doomed to suffer everlasting conscious torment?

Well sometimes, what makes the good news such good news is informing someone what the possible bad news is. That's kind of what Paul does, especially in Romans. He spends seven chapters telling us all how undeserving and hopeless we are without Christ, and then... there's Romans 8:

• "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." (8:1-4)

Often, the bad news is what helps one to realize how good the good news really is. So, occasionally, yes, although I can't remember having to do that any time recently.

Grace and peace to you.

[myth-one.com]

So in spreading the gospel you have never told anyone that nonbelievers are doomed to suffer everlasting conscious torment?

Well sometimes, what makes the good news such good news is informing someone what the possible bad news is. That's kind of what Paul does, especially in Romans. He spends seven chapters telling us all how undeserving and hopeless we are without Christ, and then... there's Romans 8:

• "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." (8:1-4)

Often, the bad news is what helps one to realize how good the good news really is. So, occasionally, yes, although I can't remember having to do that any time recently.

Grace and peace to you.

“The good news” or Gospel ( “good spiel”) contains no bad news.

When you inform someone of your fictional bad news, you are no longer spreading the gospel.

If that message is preached to all the nations, then no nation will know the good news.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

Believers receive everlasting life, nonbelievers simply perish. And everyone will individually make that choice between everlasting life or everlasting death.

That's the good news.

[onewithhim]

I beg to differ.

Of course you do.

Satan is as active as ever.

Yes and no. He is constrained ~ bound ~ from deceiving the nations. Individuals are another story, but that's totally beside the point. Satan cannot stop the spread of the Gospel to the nations. He cannot. This is precisely why Jesus issued the Great Commission of Matthew 28:19-20, to "(g)o therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that (He) commanded (us)"... promising that "(He is ) with (us) always, even to the end of the age."

He is very much active in the religions of the world that are still operating, and in governmental affairs of the nations. If you think God is directing the nations at this point, you have a sad view of Him.

These two statements are totally off the subject. I'll only say that Christ King and Lord of the nations (Revelation 15:3). We're talking about the Gospel and it's spread, not sin in general. At least I am. And Scripture. Well, in the opposite order.

Satan is still strongly deceiving the world...

Yes, but he can no longer ~ since the coming of Christ ~ stop the spread of the Gospel to all nations... he can no longer deceive the nations. Satan, the "strong man" of Matthew 12:29, is indeed bound ("abyssed") in this way. Now, near the end, he will be loosed for a short time...

Grace and peace to you.

Yes, of course Satan cannot stop the spread of the good news to the nations. Jesus is directing his church and seeing to it that his work is carried out in good order. That doesn't mean that Satan is bound in the abyss. He still influences the nations and individuals, therefore he is not in the abyss. When in the abyss, he will not be doing anything.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #255]

No, part of the good news is NOT that if you don't accept Christ you will suffer eternal conscious torment. That is a huge lie perpetrated by Satan and his minions.

[onewithhim]

So in spreading the gospel you have never told anyone that nonbelievers are doomed to suffer everlasting conscious torment?

Well sometimes, what makes the good news such good news is informing someone what the possible bad news is. That's kind of what Paul does, especially in Romans. He spends seven chapters telling us all how undeserving and hopeless we are without Christ, and then... there's Romans 8:

• "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." (8:1-4)

Often, the bad news is what helps one to realize how good the good news really is. So, occasionally, yes, although I can't remember having to do that any time recently.

Grace and peace to you.

“The good news” or Gospel ( “good spiel”) contains no bad news.

When you inform someone of your fictional bad news, you are no longer spreading the gospel.

That is what you are doing, in fact. You are informing people of fictional bad news---that God tortures people forever with no possible relief. So, according to your own words, YOU are no longer spreading the gospel.

[PinSeeker]

“The good news” or Gospel ( “good spiel”) contains no bad news.

Right. That's not what I said. You totally missed it. All I said was, sometimes, it is helpful to hear the bad news to realize how good the good news is.

Grace and peace to you.