Christianity's Biggest Problem Yet?

[POI]

Below is a 20 minute video. For the ones who opt not to watch, I'll start with the following question? (Which may then lead to many others, as this is a fairly new concept of thought for me)....

Why does YHWH allow for so much animal suffering? Before you Christians answer, I trust you are already aware of this guy's counter points?

[JoeyKnothead]

...
I think this debate fundamentally misunderstands the character of God.

That's the problem with trying to characterize something that can't be shown to exist.

[JoeyKnothead]

...
...I merely offered the possibility that animals might not actually suffer. You haven't done anything to show for sure they do suffer, either.
...

You ain't never nipped a dog with the tractor, have you?

Our problem here is in using a subjective term such as "suffer" to try to form an objective conclusion.

Is a hungry deer suffering? How about when one of the fish jumps out of the aquarium and can't help but to flop around there on the carpet, it's eyes bugged out, and them gills just a-flapping? Or the poor 'ol ugly ferret that can't find her a mate?

In debating the subjective, everybody's right, and nobody's wrong.

[William]

[Replying to kjw47 in post #360]

You seem confused on the matter. The angel being who came to be known as satan and devil, was good, a loving servant of the true God.

Q: Did you make that up or reference it from the Bible, or perhaps repeating something you heard?

The rest of the mythology you write of, is more of the same type of conjecture, based upon very scant data to begin with.

[Shem Yoshi]

...
I think this debate fundamentally misunderstands the character of God.

That's the problem with trying to characterize something that can't be shown to exist.

This debate is amusing the existence of God to discuss the subject at hand

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #362]

You must not have read what I said. Their behavior can be that of what we would associate with suffering, but that doesn't mean that they are actually suffering.

I have programmed animals for video games that might convince you they are suffering.

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #355]

You might be convinced that the animals in a game I programmed suffer.

You might believe Lamda is conscious.

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to POI in post #332]

I have already responded to everything. If you feel something is not responded to, you can make a new post and I will address anything that needs to be addressed.

No, you did not response to post 317. But that's okay. And no, making a new thread about the same topic would be silly. Allow me to try and push this forward a bit....

I'm going to steelman the $h1+ out of your argument in bold blue, from post 301 and beyond.... You are welcome.....

Animals do not actually suffer. They appear to, via human 'observation', but we are flat out wrong. Due to the topic of divine hiddenness, god's plan is to create the illusion of animal suffering, to stay in line with divine hiddenness. If we humans "observed" that animals did not suffer, we would get too suspicious.

Feel free to intervene, and correct any strawman(s) here before we proceed further.

If you think that is a steelman of my view, then you are showing how much you lack reading comprehension because that is not what I wrote. I merely offered the possibility that animals might not actually suffer. You haven't done anything to show for sure they do suffer, either.

Surely, there is better than this offered here, right?

Nonetheless, I will continue to respond to threads made that are not well thought out.

LOL! Speaking of "reading comprehension", you might want to read (again), what I wrote at the bottom of my last response. Allow me to spoon feed it to you:

"Feel free to intervene, and correct any strawman(s) here before we proceed further."

So, if we just completely concede, and establish that animals do not suffer, why do animals <appear> to suffer? Please tell us? Does it have to do with 'divine hiddenness', or is it other?

I already explained this in my first post. I am not sure why I need to repeat it here, but alright.

If animals do not suffer but appear to, they appear to because otherwise the world would seem fake. We would wonder, why do we suffer and animals not suffer? Imagine a world where humans suffer but animals do not even appear to suffer. They just act normal when your rip their arm off. They act calm and okay with it. We would feel like something is wrong with the world. It would make us feel odd and disconnected. Is this world real?

We would know we were special for sure.

If God knows suffering is how we grow and become what God wants us to become by our own free choices, and if divine hiddenness is also part of that process, then animals must also suffer, or at least appear to suffer. I stated all this in my first post.

[JoeyKnothead]

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #362]

You must not have read what I said. Their behavior can be that of what we would associate with suffering, but that doesn't mean that they are actually suffering.

I have programmed animals for video games that might convince you they are suffering.

And as I said, when speaking of the subjective, everybody's right.

What you programmed were not animals, but avatars.

[JoeyKnothead]

...
I think this debate fundamentally misunderstands the character of God.

That's the problem with trying to characterize something that can't be shown to exist.

This debate is amusing the existence of God to discuss the subject at hand

Hoping and wishing can be amusing, yes.

[JoeyKnothead]

Delete post.

Misunderstanding.