Paradise on Earth

[onewithhim]

When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.

Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 409 by onewithhim]


[center]

Adam screwed up.. so we have to pay?[/center]

Indeed they were. Jehovah is offering us the ability to get back what Adam screwed up.

____________

Question:

• 
  
  Could you explain the reason why anyone else has to pay for Adam's screw up?
  
  
  

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Yes, as I have before, but you laughed at my mention of DNA.


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[onewithhim]

No, the actual meaning is "garden".

I accept that JWs idiosyncratically choose "garden" as the ordinary meaning of paradise. It isn't, of course, though originally the word came from the Greek meaning park or garden. In Latin it commonly had the meaning "a place of bliss or heaven" which is the meaning that has found its way into English, where it can mean the Garden of Eden. JWs for whatever reason may wish to impose the meaning "garden" on it but that's nothing to do with me.

It is obvious that from the idealized scenes in your reference videos that paradise is taken to be an especially beautiful version of Earth, with the thorns removed, making it closer to heaven. It is not a garden, except in the figurative sense, so I've no idea why you wish to hang on to that meaning. There are few gardens where elephants and giraffes wander around. Catholics don't have a say in what goes into the dictionary and I guess JWs don't either. So let's stick to the standard meaning that paradise is heaven, or close to it.

As I said, when Jesus remarked that the thief would be with him in Paradise he was of course referring to heaven, not a zoological park. Perhaps you could correct this mistaken impression among your colleagues.

How interesting and curious that you do concede that "originally the word 'paradise' came from the Greek meaning park of garden," but then go on to trash the meaning!! It eventually came to mean "heaven," due to the clergy's dropping the ball on Truth, but why should that counter the original meaning? You say JWs impose the original meaning onto the word, and "for whatever reason." You yourself gave the reason we do so. The original meaning.

Our scenes are "closer to heaven"??? Do you think heaven has trees and grass and animals? There is no indication in the Bible of such a thing. The earth is not depicted by JWs as "closer to heaven." The depiction is of what the earth was originally intended to be from the beginning.

[marco]

We will not "go on aging." The Scriptures suggest that everyone will be young again and healthy and vigorous.

This makes little sense. Will there be procreation? Will babies stay as babies? What fulfilment would there be in such an existence?

"Let his flesh become fresher than in youth; let him return to the days of his youthful vigor." (Job 33:25)

A quote plucked from a tree. The statement is a jussive subjunctive, not a categorical statement of what will be.

Why should we fear the sun running out of energy? Isn't God who made it able to supply it energy for endless days?

That is true; the sum of ten impossibles is an impossible, so who is counting? It sounds utopian and food for those who need to believe. I suspect my mother believes something similar, bless her.

[marco]

How interesting and curious that you do concede that "originally the word 'paradise' came from the Greek meaning park of garden," but then go on to trash the meaning!!

You misunderstand. In ancient times paradisus had come to mean something heavenly and when paradise is promised it is this meaning, not the park, that is intended. The Romans were using it to mean heaven before the clergy got there.

Do you think heaven has trees and grass and animals?

Heaven is interpreted as the home of God or gods and I suppose it is a spiritual place, if one were pushed to describe it. I don't for a moment go along with some weird continuation of Earth, with conditions altered to cater for immortality. It does not make sense and has no purpose other than that people should breathe. There will be no scientific discoveries; no planning for the future; no forgiveness since there will be no sin. It sounds like a vacuum. Babies will for ever need nappies. Hmmmm.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 420 by onewithhim]

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It's like the land of Oz, isn't it?[/center]

Why WOULDN'T anyone want to live on Earth forever where we won't age beyond 30 or so and where animals are harmless?

We can invent all kinds of things.
Why not 20, by the way?

Or.. how about 16.. that was a lot of fun, too.
But I'm happy that you invented a zoo.

Never grow up.. that's like Peter Pan.. and they can all FLY... woo.

[onewithhim]

How interesting and curious that you do concede that "originally the word 'paradise' came from the Greek meaning park of garden," but then go on to trash the meaning!!

You misunderstand. In ancient times paradisus had come to mean something heavenly and when paradise is promised it is this meaning, not the park, that is intended. The Romans were using it to mean heaven before the clergy got there.

Do you think heaven has trees and grass and animals?

Heaven is interpreted as the home of God or gods and I suppose it is a spiritual place, if one were pushed to describe it. I don't for a moment go along with some weird continuation of Earth, with conditions altered to cater for immortality. It does not make sense and has no purpose other than that people should breathe. There will be no scientific discoveries; no planning for the future; no forgiveness since there will be no sin. It sounds like a vacuum. Babies will for ever need nappies. Hmmmm.

If you go back and look at what you first said about "paradise," you will see that you said that the original meaning was "a park or garden."
And, once again you haven't really paid much attention to my posts. I remember saying that babies will grow up to about 30 years of age and then stop aging. This is what millions of folks have reasoned, since to be a baby forever is indeed senseless. It has also been said, throughout this thread, that there will be endless things to do in Paradise. Scientific discoveries will be happening every day! There will be no end to the wonder. We will plan for the future just like we do now, only we won't have to be at a grinding 9-5 job anymore, working for someone else just to earn a scrape-by living.

Since this has been explained ad nauseum, I see no sense in continuing to explain it over and over, just to get further statements of ridicule.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 420 by onewithhim]

[center]


It's like the land of Oz, isn't it?[/center]

Why WOULDN'T anyone want to live on Earth forever where we won't age beyond 30 or so and where animals are harmless?

We can invent all kinds of things.
Why not 20, by the way?

Or.. how about 16.. that was a lot of fun, too.
But I'm happy that you invented a zoo.

Never grow up.. that's like Peter Pan.. and they can all FLY... woo.

Woo woo. Like my mom used to say whenever "Trackdown" would come on, with Robert Culp, back in the '50s, 'cause she knew I loved Robert Culp. Woo woo!

You ask, "why not 20"? Well, that may be, but we figure that by around 30 a person has developed all that he is going to physically develop, and we now start going down-hill after that, so it's safe to say that God would allow us to completely develop physically and then stop the aging.

(Also, Jesus grew up until he was 33 as a physical man. Could that be some hint as to how old people will allowed to grow to, or grow back to?)

[marco]

If you go back and look at what you first said about "paradise," you will see that you said that the original meaning was "a park or garden."

Yes, and with that meaning in ancient times there is the meaning of paradise as heaven. It is THIS meaning that we take when we use the word biblically. It makes no sense to take it as meaning a park but then what you describe - babies growing to be thirty and then stopping at that magical age is just the stuff of fables. Where can that possibly be authenticated?

Scientific discoveries will be happening every day!

How absurd! What would the discoveries be for? It sounds like a human zoo, with God giving the inmates pleasant tasks to amuse them - God forbid that this should ever happen! Humans in God's captivity!

[onewithhim]

If you go back and look at what you first said about "paradise," you will see that you said that the original meaning was "a park or garden."

Yes, and with that meaning in ancient times there is the meaning of paradise as heaven. It is THIS meaning that we take when we use the word biblically. It makes no sense to take it as meaning a park but then what you describe - babies growing to be thirty and then stopping at that magical age is just the stuff of fables. Where can that possibly be authenticated?

Scientific discoveries will be happening every day!

How absurd! What would the discoveries be for? It sounds like a human zoo, with God giving the inmates pleasant tasks to amuse them - God forbid that this should ever happen! Humans in God's captivity!

We are using our sense of reason. ("Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord." Isaiah 1:18, KJV) We KNOW that the Bible promises a physical paradise Earth, and I have quoted many verses, so for people to grow old like we do now is unreasonable. The whole reason we grow old now is because of the rebellion of Adam. He brought sin and suffering and death onto his descendants. When all that comes to an end, there will be no more suffering and death---the causes of aging. What age was Adam when he was created? We don't know, but certainly he was an adult. And a perfect adult. God never intended him to die when he was created, so we will all be whatever Adam's age was before he rebelled.

You ask, "What would the discoveries be for?" That is what "discovery" is---to find out new things. Do you think, possibly, that there are many more things that we do not know about on this planet and in the universe?

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 427 by onewithhim]

Woo woo. Like my mom used to say whenever "Trackdown" would come on, with Robert Culp, back in the '50s, 'cause she knew I loved Robert Culp. Woo woo!

WOO WOO.. lol.
That's kind of theme with us, right?

That show is even before MY time, I think.
I don't even know if we HAD a TV.. we were a bit poor and ignorant.

I don't think my folks read any books, either.
I started all of that when I had to go to school.

You ask, "why not 20"? Well, that may be, but we figure that by around 30 a person has developed all that he is going to physically develop, and we now start going down-hill after that, so it's safe to say that God would allow us to completely develop physically and then stop the aging.

"Safe to say"?
Well, I suppose as long as you feel safe, I guess.

That's a nice feeling.

My glory days were around 16 to 22.
Those days felt real nice to me.

(Also, Jesus grew up until he was 33 as a physical man. Could that be some hint as to how old people will allowed to grow to, or grow back to?)

No.