Prove the claim..

[Elijah John]

Challenges for debate:

First you may need to prove that the Bible is inerrant, without scientific error or other contradicition. please do this without resorting to circular reasoning.

Then prove that the Bible actually claims that Jesus is God with the same clarity as the Bible states that "YHVH is God". (Isaiah 45.5)

OR demonstrate in some other reasonable way that "Jesus is God".

If you cannot do this, then why do so many Christians persist in claiming others are hell-bound for NOT believing that "Jesus is God"?

[21stCenturyIconoclast]

[Replying to post 47 by OnceConvinced]



OnceConvinced,

YOUR QUOTE: "Please do not use bible verses to denigrate or attack another member."

How can I be denigrating to Jehovah Witness by informing this person that they're blatantly and willfully going against their NWT bible? I am trying to help this person so they won't make this mistake again. I am not "attacking" anyone, but in turn, I am trying to enlighten this person on their own NWT bible so they won't make this mistake again.

If anything, Jehovah Witness should be thanking me!



__________________________

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 38 by onewithhim]



onewithhim,

YOUR QUOTE: They BOTH transgressed, TFCI. Eve believed Satan, and then Adam took the fruit even though he knew that Satan lied. The scriptures indicate that Adam rebelled deliberately, and he bears the responsibility because of the headship arrangement; he should have chastened Eve but did not. You seem to think that they didn't know right from wrong, but we believe that a Creator would not put his creations on Earth without telling them what they should do or not do. That is ridiculous. They both knew what would be detrimental to them, and they, in fact, were warned strongly by Jehovah about not touching the one tree.

I am sorry, but once again I am having to correct you. No where in the Adam and Eve narrative does it state that Adam knew that Satan lied before Eve ate from the tree of Knowledge of good and evil, because Adam had yet to learn from good and evil and that Adam rebelled deliberately inferring that he bears responsibility for the Original Sin, nowhere!

What you want to believe in your erroneous statements, and what Yahwehs inspired direct word states, are two mutually exclusive concepts, no matter how ridiculous you want to call your bibles direct words. The headship arrangement that you used out of context was done later when Yahweh punished Eve and all subsequent women with pains in childbirth, and that man shall rule over women henceforth, all because of her transgression of being the impetus of the Original Sin.

Biblical fact, Eve ate first, therefore subsequently knowing from good and evil. Before Adam ate second, he DID NOT KNOW OF GOOD AND EVIL YET, therefore Eve deceived Adam. Subsequently, the blame game started when Adam blames Eve, and Eve blames the talking snake, whether he spoke in Aramaic or Greek, does not matter. ( Genesis 3:12-13).

Bottom line? Eve is the impetus of the Original Sin without any doubt whatsoever, otherwise, do you really want to say that Peter is a liar when he stated: And Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. (1 Timothy 2:14)

Onewithhim, I am sorry, but youre guilty of the following godly passage, to wit: For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. (2 Timothy 4:3)

No...as I tried to explain, Adam surely knew the difference between right and wrong, otherwise he would not have been held accountable for his disobedience. There is no reason to think he didn't know right from wrong.

Your statements, condemning my viewpoint, are as outrageous as you claim mine are. In other words, your way of looking at things cannot be proven, just as you say my way of looking at things is the result of wishing things were a certain way and then making scriptures match my wishes. The same with you.

And would you tell me straight up what it is that JWs "want to hear" so that we gathered teachers to cater to our "itching ears"?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 47 by OnceConvinced]



OnceConvinced,

YOUR QUOTE: "Please do not use bible verses to denigrate or attack another member."

How can I be denigrating to Jehovah Witness by informing them that they're blatantly and willfully going against their NWT bible? I am trying to help this person so they won't make this mistake again! I am not "attacking" anyone, but in turn, I am trying to enlighten this person on their own NWT bible so they won't make the same mistake twice.

If anything, Jehovah Witness should be thanking me!



__________________________

You ARE attacking us, and you are doing so in a very unpleasant manner. It would be nice if we could just respectfully DISCUSS the scriptures without accusations that you don't bother to reason about.

[Bust Nak]

[Replying to post 50 by 21stCenturyIconoclast]
Moderator Warning


Do not challenges moderator actions publically, if you object to the warning, send the team a PM, or appeal directly to otseng.

______________

Moderator warnings count as a strike against users. Additional violations in the future may warrant a final warning. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

[21stCenturyIconoclast]

[quote="onewithhim"]
[quote="21stCenturyIconoclast"]
[Replying to post 38 by onewithhim]



onewithhim,

You are a prime example of what your itching ears want to hear in your ever so subjective assertions, wishful thinking, rhetoric, and hearsay from your JW church shown below, and for the last time;

.....Adam took the fruit even though he knew that Satan lied

The scriptures indicate that Adam rebelled deliberately,...

.....and he bears the responsibility because of the headship arrangement; he should have chastened Eve but did not.

You seem to think that they didn't know right from wrong, but we believe that a Creator would not put his creations on Earth without telling them what they should do or not do.

5. They both knew what would be detrimental to them, in fact, were warned strongly by Jehovah (actually Yahweh) about not touching the one tree.

The bibles itching ears want to hear scenario works like this; show us where in the bible that these weak assertions of yours listed above are true in every word. Otherwise, they represent nothing but wishful thinking, empty assertions, rhetoric, and hearsay from your JW church. I cant make it any simpler.

Then as if to say that your assertions are to trump actual bible axioms isnt enough, then you blatantly go against your Yahwehs inspired word and state that 1 Timothy 2:14 is lying which states Eve was the transgressor and not Adam! Where does your insolence to Yahwehs word stop?


When Christians understand why you dismiss all the other gods in the Before Common Era, then you will understand why I dismiss yours.

__________________________________________

[21stCenturyIconoclast]

[Replying to post 47 by OnceConvinced]



OnceConvinced,

YOUR QUOTE: "Please do not use bible verses to denigrate or attack another member."

How can I be denigrating to Jehovah Witness by informing them that they're blatantly and willfully going against their NWT bible? I am trying to help this person so they won't make this mistake again! I am not "attacking" anyone, but in turn, I am trying to enlighten this person on their own NWT bible so they won't make the same mistake twice.

If anything, Jehovah Witness should be thanking me!



__________________________

You ARE attacking us, and you are doing so in a very unpleasant manner. It would be nice if we could just respectfully DISCUSS the scriptures without accusations that you don't bother to reason about.

onewithhim,

Please don't parrot another in this alleged "attacking you" scenario because I am not, but instead, enlightening you on your bible, that's all. One is to learn the difference between attacking and enlightening.

The "itching ears want to hear" proposition is to help you understand that you DO NOT trump your inspired word of Yahweh with your unfounded assertions, wishful thinking rhetoric, and hearsay from your JW church, but in turn, you are to follow every word of Yahweh's bible in the same vein as you do when Yahweh's word is not disgusting and horrific. Its as simple at that.

Have you heard the adage that you can't have your cake and eat it too? Sure you have, and that is what you're doing in an ungodly way. Just trying to help you.

EVERY word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. (Proverbs 30:5)


When Christians understand why you dismiss all the other gods in the Before Common Era, then you will understand why I dismiss yours.


______________________________________________

[Zzyzx]

.
[Replying to post 54 by 21stCenturyIconoclast]

Moderator Final Warning

Following a Warning with another infraction indicates disregard / disrespect of Forum Rules and Guidelines. Accumulating Comments and Warnings is a ticket to Probation, Suspension and Banishment.

Those who cannot or will not refrain from violating Forum Rules and/or making personal remarks become candidates for Probation -- which I have recommended to the Moderating Team in this case.

Please review the Rules.


______________

Moderator final warnings serve as the last strike towards users. Additional violations will result in a probation vote. Further infractions will lead to banishment. Any challenges or replies to moderator warnings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 38 by onewithhim]



onewithhim,

You are a prime example of what your itching ears want to hear in your ever so subjective assertions, wishful thinking, rhetoric, and hearsay from your JW church shown below, and for the last time;

.....Adam took the fruit even though he knew that Satan lied

The scriptures indicate that Adam rebelled deliberately,...

.....and he bears the responsibility because of the headship arrangement; he should have chastened Eve but did not.

You seem to think that they didn't know right from wrong, but we believe that a Creator would not put his creations on Earth without telling them what they should do or not do.

5. They both knew what would be detrimental to them, in fact, were warned strongly by Jehovah (actually Yahweh) about not touching the one tree.

The bibles itching ears want to hear scenario works like this; show us where in the bible that these weak assertions of yours listed above are true in every word. Otherwise, they represent nothing but wishful thinking, empty assertions, rhetoric, and hearsay from your JW church. I cant make it any simpler.

Then as if to say that your assertions are to trump actual bible axioms isnt enough, then you blatantly go against your Yahwehs inspired word and state that 1 Timothy 2:14 is lying which states Eve was the transgressor and not Adam! Where does your insolence to Yahwehs word stop?


When Christians understand why you dismiss all the other gods in the Before Common Era, then you will understand why I dismiss yours.

__________________________________________

You are wrong. I Timothy says that ADAM was responsible for the transgression. And the comments I made, that you trash, are backed up by Scripture, and I alluded to those Scriptures.