Three days /three nights and the Pharisees

[rstrats]

When responding to the Pharisees, why do you suppose the Messiah made the specific point that He would be in the "heart of the earth" for 3 days and 3 nights?

[boatsnguitars]

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #45]

As I wrote, the number "three" is basically what you said.....it denotes emphasis and intensity.

Sure. i suppose - if that's how you interpret it. It may have even been the intention of the writer!

It's nice to have found some agreement between us.

I suppose, but I imagine our underlying rationale are very different.

BTW, concerning the quote from Omar Khayyam......God hasn't hidden anything from anybody. It's all laid out in His Word, the Bible. Anyone can avail themselves of the knowledge that will ensure their ability to live forever.

I'd like to respond by saying:
What God? You are talking about men writing books that claim to come from God, and then you each, individually, interpret what those men said in your own way and create churches that continue to divide yourselves.
Those men wrote that you can live forever, that's not a promise from God - that's a bunch of men doing exactly what you are doing: believing what other men told you.
Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery. None but ourselves can free our mind.

But because this is a section of the forum that is protected, so as not to offend religious people, I'll only say, "Sure." Which I'm sure comforts you.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #45]

As I wrote, the number "three" is basically what you said.....it denotes emphasis and intensity.

Sure. i suppose - if that's how you interpret it. It may have even been the intention of the writer!

It's nice to have found some agreement between us.

I suppose, but I imagine our underlying rationale are very different.

BTW, concerning the quote from Omar Khayyam......God hasn't hidden anything from anybody. It's all laid out in His Word, the Bible. Anyone can avail themselves of the knowledge that will ensure their ability to live forever.

I'd like to respond by saying:
What God? You are talking about men writing books that claim to come from God, and then you each, individually, interpret what those men said in your own way and create churches that continue to divide yourselves.
Those men wrote that you can live forever, that's not a promise from God - that's a bunch of men doing exactly what you are doing: believing what other men told you.
Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery. None but ourselves can free our mind.

But because this is a section of the forum that is protected, so as not to offend religious people, I'll only say, "Sure." Which I'm sure comforts you.

Omar said, and perhaps you would go along with it, that God hid the ability to live forever from men. Am I correct? I assume that is the God of the Bible. How can you be so sure that Jehovah (the God of the Bible) is hiding things from anybody? Can you explain just what Mr. Khayyam was talking about? BTW, Jesus believed that the Bible (he had the Old Testament) was from his Father, Jehovah. Do you believe that Jesus was an intelligent, benevolent individual that wasn't trying to pull the wool? I do believe the Bible, not what some man has told me. It seems plausible to me that God would have had a book written to let us know about Him, and thus He inspired 4 dozen or so men to pen what He inspired them to write.

[boatsnguitars]

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #45]

As I wrote, the number "three" is basically what you said.....it denotes emphasis and intensity.

Sure. i suppose - if that's how you interpret it. It may have even been the intention of the writer!

It's nice to have found some agreement between us.

I suppose, but I imagine our underlying rationale are very different.

BTW, concerning the quote from Omar Khayyam......God hasn't hidden anything from anybody. It's all laid out in His Word, the Bible. Anyone can avail themselves of the knowledge that will ensure their ability to live forever.

I'd like to respond by saying:
What God? You are talking about men writing books that claim to come from God, and then you each, individually, interpret what those men said in your own way and create churches that continue to divide yourselves.
Those men wrote that you can live forever, that's not a promise from God - that's a bunch of men doing exactly what you are doing: believing what other men told you.
Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery. None but ourselves can free our mind.

But because this is a section of the forum that is protected, so as not to offend religious people, I'll only say, "Sure." Which I'm sure comforts you.

Omar said, and perhaps you would go along with it, that God hid the ability to live forever from men. Am I correct? I assume that is the God of the Bible.

The atheists Persian poet from 1048-1131, in an area that had been ruled by Muslims from the 700s - was referencing the God of your Bible? That's quite the ego!

How can you be so sure that Jehovah (the God of the Bible) is hiding things from anybody?

Do we know everything? If there is a God, and we don't know everything, he must be hiding something. Go on, ask God to tell you the Lottery numbers for tomorrow. See if he reveals it or keeps it hidden from you - assuming your God knows this kind of thing.

Can you explain just what Mr. Khayyam was talking about?

It's very clear. I don't see the confusion.

BTW, Jesus believed that the Bible (he had the Old Testament) was from his Father, Jehovah.

Your Bible hadn't been written in Jesus's lifetime. Only the OT. Certainly not the NT or Koran.

Do you believe that Jesus was an intelligent, benevolent individual that wasn't trying to pull the wool?

A bit of both. I think Jesus was an itinerant preacher who used cheap magic tricks to perform "miracles."

I do believe the Bible, not what some man has told me.

The Bible was written by men. It's literally what some man is telling you.

It seems plausible to me that God would have had a book written to let us know about Him, and thus He inspired 4 dozen or so men to pen what He inspired them to write.

So, a man tells you. After all, where did you get the idea that God inspired them? They don't say they were inspired by God.

When Paul says in 2 Timothy 3:16, literally, that all Scripture is θεόπνευστος (theopneustos), or “God-breathed,” it does not mean that the human authors were “inspired” but that the Scripture itself, the product was, as we have been taught to say, “inspired.”

https://seminary.bju.edu/theology-in-3d ... he-spirit/


See? Men telling you stuff.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #53]
I think that it doesn't take much brainpower to see that "God-breathed" would mean God "inspired."

The rest of your comments I will leave to readers here to decide on their own what value they have to the discussion.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #53]


One last comment. How do you figure that Jesus used "cheap magic tricks" to raise a person from the dead? I don't think that could be faked.

[boatsnguitars]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #54]

Maybe for you. Why don't you explain?
Because I happen to know scholars don't agree with you.

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #53]
I think that it doesn't take much brainpower to see that "God-breathed" would mean God "inspired."

Apparently it takes a skosh of intelligence to realize it's still a man writing it, and telling you it's "god-breathed"... And, since we're in your safe space, we have to nod obidiently and say, but he must be telling the truth because the man who runs this site said so.

Sorry, you can't escape the fact that all your knowledge of God, the Bible and Jesus is from what men have told you. Even your own thoughts...

[onewithhim]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #54]

Maybe for you. Why don't you explain?
Because I happen to know scholars don't agree with you.

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #53]
I think that it doesn't take much brainpower to see that "God-breathed" would mean God "inspired."

Apparently it takes a skosh of intelligence to realize it's still a man writing it, and telling you it's "god-breathed"... And, since we're in your safe space, we have to nod obidiently and say, but he must be telling the truth because the man who runs this site said so.

Sorry, you can't escape the fact that all your knowledge of God, the Bible and Jesus is from what men have told you. Even your own thoughts...

You said that Jesus was just an itinerant preacher who pulled the wool by performing magic tricks. You are just some man, as you say Jesus was, and as you denigrate all men who say that the Bible is true. Maybe your opinion is wrong. You are just a man.

And you didn't explain how Jesus could raise someone from the dead, if he was a fake.

[boatsnguitars]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #54]

Maybe for you. Why don't you explain?
Because I happen to know scholars don't agree with you.

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #53]
I think that it doesn't take much brainpower to see that "God-breathed" would mean God "inspired."

Apparently it takes a skosh of intelligence to realize it's still a man writing it, and telling you it's "god-breathed"... And, since we're in your safe space, we have to nod obidiently and say, but he must be telling the truth because the man who runs this site said so.

Sorry, you can't escape the fact that all your knowledge of God, the Bible and Jesus is from what men have told you. Even your own thoughts...

You said that Jesus was just an itinerant preacher who pulled the wool by performing magic tricks. You are just some man, as you say Jesus was, and as you denigrate all men who say that the Bible is true. Maybe your opinion is wrong. You are just a man.

And you didn't explain how Jesus could raise someone from the dead, if he was a fake.

Exactly! I'm glad you are finally agreeing! We all get it from men. The story that Jesus as a con is another story. There are many stories about Jesus told (see the Apocrypha, for example. The Gospel of Judas, etc.) There are millions of stories about gods. They are all true in their way.

As to your last point. Jesus could raise a man from the dead because that's how the story goes. God couldn't defeat the iron chariots because that's how the story goes. Why would you think the story would be different? The Bible is completely accurate and true - as all religious texts are.

If you want to know which stories actually conform to reality, that's a problem. For example, was Jonah really swallowed by a whale? Did God really command the murder of babies and livestock? Did Jesus actually walk on water? Or are they metaphors, or allegories, or hyperbole, etc?

If the Bible is "inspired," what does that actually mean? That there is no allegory at all? Some? All?

For example, did Matthew actually write the Gospel of Matthew, or Paul write 2 Peter? Or was it 'inspired' and therefore not important that they didn't?

I know what you believe - but what is the truth? Even you can't say, nor can you rely on the men telling you one way or another.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #54]

Maybe for you. Why don't you explain?
Because I happen to know scholars don't agree with you.

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #53]
I think that it doesn't take much brainpower to see that "God-breathed" would mean God "inspired."

Apparently it takes a skosh of intelligence to realize it's still a man writing it, and telling you it's "god-breathed"... And, since we're in your safe space, we have to nod obidiently and say, but he must be telling the truth because the man who runs this site said so.

Sorry, you can't escape the fact that all your knowledge of God, the Bible and Jesus is from what men have told you. Even your own thoughts...

You said that Jesus was just an itinerant preacher who pulled the wool by performing magic tricks. You are just some man, as you say Jesus was, and as you denigrate all men who say that the Bible is true. Maybe your opinion is wrong. You are just a man.

And you didn't explain how Jesus could raise someone from the dead, if he was a fake.

Exactly! I'm glad you are finally agreeing! We all get it from men. The story that Jesus as a con is another story. There are many stories about Jesus told (see the Apocrypha, for example. The Gospel of Judas, etc.) There are millions of stories about gods. They are all true in their way.

As to your last point. Jesus could raise a man from the dead because that's how the story goes. God couldn't defeat the iron chariots because that's how the story goes. Why would you think the story would be different? The Bible is completely accurate and true - as all religious texts are.

If you want to know which stories actually conform to reality, that's a problem. For example, was Jonah really swallowed by a whale? Did God really command the murder of babies and livestock? Did Jesus actually walk on water? Or are they metaphors, or allegories, or hyperbole, etc?

If the Bible is "inspired," what does that actually mean? That there is no allegory at all? Some? All?

For example, did Matthew actually write the Gospel of Matthew, or Paul write 2 Peter? Or was it 'inspired' and therefore not important that they didn't?

I know what you believe - but what is the truth? Even you can't say, nor can you rely on the men telling you one way or another.

I CAN say what the truth is. If someone doesn't want to believe it, that's their prerogative. You say "all religious texts are true." That can't be, because there is one truth. The problem is---which is the true one?

Jonah wasn't swallowed by a whale. It was a big fish. There are reports of men actually swallowed by a very big shark. It can happen. Did Jesus walk on water? If he could form the planets and stars in heaven before coming here, he could certainly walk on water. The Bible does contain metaphors, allegories and hyperbole. It also contains actual events and prophecies. Now, it is true that the Pharisees were a hypocritical and unsavory, cold and selfish bunch. This is true, and Jesus chastised them for it. But then he used allegory to describe the position of the Pharisees with God. Luke 16: 19-31 is a tale of a man that really was in trouble with God, and that pictured the Pharisees. The death of them and Lazarus portrayed a change of position in their lives. Lazarus (portraying the common people) was accepted by God, the Greater Abraham, whereas the Pharisees were not. The fire that is portrayed is not literal fire but the scorching preaching of Jesus and his disciples that revealed the Pharisees as hypocrites. It's all allegory but a story that pertains to something literal---the hypocritical Pharisees vs. the common people.

So I should listen to you when you are a man as well? I can choose, after scrutinizing what is being said and drawing conclusions after gathering all the information, whichever man might be telling me something that I can figure out in my own mind as to what is true. To search for Truth is mandatory if we want to actually live forever.

You accused Jesus of faking a resurrection of dead people. Then tell me how he did such a thing if he was doing "tricks." You don't seem to want to answer that. You made the accusation, now answer the question.

[boatsnguitars]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #54]

Maybe for you. Why don't you explain?
Because I happen to know scholars don't agree with you.

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #53]
I think that it doesn't take much brainpower to see that "God-breathed" would mean God "inspired."

Apparently it takes a skosh of intelligence to realize it's still a man writing it, and telling you it's "god-breathed"... And, since we're in your safe space, we have to nod obidiently and say, but he must be telling the truth because the man who runs this site said so.

Sorry, you can't escape the fact that all your knowledge of God, the Bible and Jesus is from what men have told you. Even your own thoughts...

You said that Jesus was just an itinerant preacher who pulled the wool by performing magic tricks. You are just some man, as you say Jesus was, and as you denigrate all men who say that the Bible is true. Maybe your opinion is wrong. You are just a man.

And you didn't explain how Jesus could raise someone from the dead, if he was a fake.

Exactly! I'm glad you are finally agreeing! We all get it from men. The story that Jesus as a con is another story. There are many stories about Jesus told (see the Apocrypha, for example. The Gospel of Judas, etc.) There are millions of stories about gods. They are all true in their way.

As to your last point. Jesus could raise a man from the dead because that's how the story goes. God couldn't defeat the iron chariots because that's how the story goes. Why would you think the story would be different? The Bible is completely accurate and true - as all religious texts are.

If you want to know which stories actually conform to reality, that's a problem. For example, was Jonah really swallowed by a whale? Did God really command the murder of babies and livestock? Did Jesus actually walk on water? Or are they metaphors, or allegories, or hyperbole, etc?

If the Bible is "inspired," what does that actually mean? That there is no allegory at all? Some? All?

For example, did Matthew actually write the Gospel of Matthew, or Paul write 2 Peter? Or was it 'inspired' and therefore not important that they didn't?

I know what you believe - but what is the truth? Even you can't say, nor can you rely on the men telling you one way or another.

I CAN say what the truth is. If someone doesn't want to believe it, that's their prerogative. You say "all religious texts are true." That can't be, because there is one truth. The problem is---which is the true one?

No, they are all true. Ask any believer. They will tell you.

Jonah wasn't swallowed by a whale. It was a big fish. There are reports of men actually swallowed by a very big shark. It can happen.

And lived in it for 3 days? C'mon. But, of course, reality doesn't matter once you believe is the supernatural.

Did Jesus walk on water? If he could form the planets and stars in heaven before coming here, he could certainly walk on water.

Why? Explain the physics behind that. Also, did Jesus do those things - I thought it was Yahweh? Jesus was born in about 4 CE - long after the planets were formed. It appears you don't even know your own chronology...
(Of course, I know you are going to say Yahweh and Jesus are the same... sure, and he's the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, too, right?)
You can believe what you want but perish the notion that you are convincing anyone that you speak the truth.

The Bible does contain metaphors, allegories and hyperbole. It also contains actual events and prophecies. Now, it is true that the Pharisees were a hypocritical and unsavory, cold and selfish bunch. This is true, and Jesus chastised them for it. But then he used allegory to describe the position of the Pharisees with God. Luke 16: 19-31 is a tale of a man that really was in trouble with God, and that pictured the Pharisees. The death of them and Lazarus portrayed a change of position in their lives. Lazarus (portraying the common people) was accepted by God, the Greater Abraham, whereas the Pharisees were not. The fire that is portrayed is not literal fire but the scorching preaching of Jesus and his disciples that revealed the Pharisees as hypocrites. It's all allegory but a story that pertains to something literal---the hypocritical Pharisees vs. the common people.

So I should listen to you when you are a man as well? I can choose, after scrutinizing what is being said and drawing conclusions after gathering all the information, whichever man might be telling me something that I can figure out in my own mind as to what is true. To search for Truth is mandatory if we want to actually live forever.

You accused Jesus of faking a resurrection of dead people. Then tell me how he did such a thing if he was doing "tricks." You don't seem to want to answer that. You made the accusation, now answer the question.

Haven't you seen the videos of holy men in Africa raising the dead? Do you believe they are real or fake? If fake, how did they do it!? If real, then why do we have hospitals?