Is the Second Coming of Jesus a Hoax?

[Rational Atheist]

For debate:

Is the Second Coming of Jesus a Hoax?

Arguably the most important doctrine of Christianity is the doctrine of the Second Coming of Christ, also known as the "Final Judgment." This is the key event that Christians look forward to--the event when Jesus comes down from the clouds of Heaven, to rescue the righteous believers and save them from the wrath of God, while raining merciless judgment upon the unbelievers in the fires of Hell. But what most Christians likely don't know about this "second coming" is that the Bible actually predicted that it would occur soon after Jesus walked the earth. And, as it turns out, the Bible actually says that Jesus predicted exactly when it would occur, and, clearly, this timeframe has passed.

Mark 13:9-30 states:

9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.

10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.

13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:

16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.

17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.

19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:

22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

28 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:

29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.

30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

So, apparently, the second coming was supposed to occur within the generation alive during Jesus' time. But many apologists object to this and claim that the "generation" referred to in the Mark passage is either referring to a future generation, or means something other than the standard definition of the word "generation." And this objection could be valid IF there were not other scriptures containing the exact same language (and hence the same prophecy) that used different language to specify when the events would occur. As it turns out, Matthew Chapter 10 contains the exact same prophecies (I have underlined the common words), and further specifies that these events would take place within the disciples' lifetimes, specifically, they would be rescued before they finished running away from their persecutors, through the cities of Israel, as we can read in Matthew 10:16-23:

“I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. 17 Be on your guard; you will be handed over to the local councils and be flogged in the synagogues. 18 On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, 20 for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

21 “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. 22 You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.


Take note of the underlined passages. Mark 13:9-13 and Matthew 10:17-22 contain nearly the exact same words, so there is no question that they are referring to the same events. The second coming of Christ (along with the destruction of the solar system, the earth, and many of the stars) was supposed to occur, according to the bible, within the lifetimes of the people alive in Jesus' time, so no later than 100 AD. Obviously this didn't happen. So, in my opinion, we are forced to conclude that the return of Christ is a fable, in the same class as the 2012 doomsday hoax, and other failed Armageddon predictions.

[JehovahsWitness]

I’m following along as best I can with time available. I have a question for you all. What’s the point?

I cannot answer for anyone but myself. My point is that the bible is a collection of works that include all the usual (and at times unusual) literary devices. Everyone, atheist and theist alike, makes decisions every time they read or hear anything, as to whether they will take the information as being literal or figurative. These decisions are not random but usually based on what we know about language.

To authomatically assume everyone that concludes a passage in the bible is figurative is guilty of eisegesis, intellectuel dishonesty, cherry picking or just plain "scamming" is not only unreasonable, but in all likelihood hypocritical, since everyone that is even half way literate has, by defintion has come to the same conclusion about something in the bible themselves.




JW






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FURTHER READING

Literary Devices in Poems Class 9, Examples, Explanation, Common Literary Devices
https://www.successcds.net/learn-englis ... poems.html

Poetry vs. Prose in the Bible by R.P. NETTELHORST
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To learn more please go to other posts related to...

THE BIBLE , HERMENEUTICS* and ... BIBLICAL LITERALISM

* bible interpretation

[Msuta7]

The Second Coming of Jesus is absolutely REAL! And you can find the proof through that AMAZING CHRISTIAN NEWS!

[historia]

[Replying to Miles in post #42]

We were this-close to landing the plane on this discussion, Miles, so it would be a shame to give up now.

After reading post #51, let me ask you again: Do you expect that poetry and apocalyptic literature often use figurative language?

[historia]

I'm just going to assume that you recognize that the Bible is a compilation of many different works that span various literary genres, and that several of those works contain poetry. If that's not your understanding, let me know, and we can clear-up any confusion on this point.

If that is all it is then it doesn't really matter how you read it. Where it matters is how one interprets the content if you believe that it is meant to be the inspired word of God.

I'm not sure I understand your argument here. Despite the reluctance of the atheists in this thread to answer it, my question is quite simple: Do you expect that poetry and apocalyptic literature often use figurative language?

If we assume, for the sake of argument, that the Bible is the inspired word of God, does that somehow change the nature of literary genres? Would we now have to to read all poetry differently?

[Msuta7]

The Logos revealed Himself again in 2001! An "atom bomb like" study with hard scientific evidence proves it

[John Bauer]

[Replying to Rational Atheist in post #1]

Is the Second Coming of Jesus a Hoax?

What most Christians likely don't know about this "second coming" is that the Bible actually predicted that it would occur soon after Jesus walked the earth. ... Mark 13:9-30 states [among other things that] "in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. ... Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done."

So, apparently, the second coming was supposed to occur within the generation alive during Jesus' time.

... The second coming of Christ (along with the destruction of the solar system, the earth, and many of the stars) was supposed to occur, according to the bible, within the lifetimes of the people alive in Jesus' time, so no later than 100 AD. Obviously this didn't happen. So, in my opinion, we are forced to conclude that the return of Christ is a fable, in the same class as the 2012 doomsday hoax, and other failed Armageddon predictions.

Only if those passages are describing the second coming, which premillennialist views affirm. In other words, this is a problem for both historical and dispensational premillennialist views only. This is not a problem for preterists, including postmillennial views (see for example Christian Reconstructionism, as advocated by the likes of Douglas Wilson and Jeff Durbin), nor amillennialists (common among Anglicans, Reformed, Lutherans, Roman Catholics, and Eastern Orthodox). Classical preterism, for example, teaches that the Olivet discourse refers to events that happened by 70 AD—precisely within that generation. The stuff about the sun and moon and stars are references to Old Testament prophecy about God's catastrophic judgment against the nation of Israel and the people of God continuing as the New Testament church (covenant theology, which is opposed to dispensational theology).¹

As a preterist who is leaning amillennial, I found that your post completely ignores my position. It challenges only premillennialists.

_____

¹ See the helpful blog article by Jack Shannon, "Postmillennialism: The Lesser Lights of Heaven," Feller of Trees (blog), October 19, 2020.