The Godhead, Correctly Explained

[A Freeman]

Excerpt below from:

In The Beginning Was The Word

Before the beginning of time, before there was language - both of which God created - God exists. Please note well the correct use of the word "exists", which is a present-tense verb because God has no beginning, nor any end.

Psalm 90:2 BEFORE the mountains were brought forth, or ever Thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, Thou [art] God.

God is the self-existing ONE (Exod. 3:14; Deut. 6:4; Zech. 14:9; Mark 12:29), NOT a "trinity". One actually means one; it does NOT mean 3=1 or 1=3 or anything other than one. There is only ONE Almighty God, Who is The Most High (Psalm 57:2; Luke 1:32-35; Sura 2:255), i.e. greater than ALL (John 10:29), including Christ (John 14:28).

Before God created anyone or anything, God exists. Before time began there would have been no need for the Word (communication) in any form, as there was no one else with which to communicate.

In the Beginning

John 1:1-2 KJV
1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

The first creation of God was His Firstborn/Eldest Son Michael (Col. 1:15; Rev. 3:14), known here on Earth by His TITLE: Christ.

Colossians 1:12-15
1:12 GIVING THANKS UNTO THE FATHER, Which hath made us meet to be sharers of the inheritance of the holy people in Light:
1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into The Kingdom of His dear Son:
1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:
1:15 Who is the IMAGE of the INVISIBLE God, the FIRSTBORN of every CREATURE*:

*Note Well: By Definition -

IMAGE = LIKENESS. The Hebrew name "Micha-El" literally means "Who is LIKE God?". Like Michael, we (the spiritual-Beings/Souls) were made in God's IMAGE/LIKENESS, but we certainly are NOT God the Father, and neither is anyone else, including Christ (Matt. 23:9; Sura 33:40).

INVISIBLE = NOT VISIBLE. No one has ever seen God (John 1:18; John 5:37), but thousands upon thousands saw Jesus, the human son of the virgin Mary, into whom Prince Michael/Christ was incarnated.

FIRSTBORN = THE FIRST CREATED/THE FIRST TO BE BROUGHT INTO EXISTENCE.

CREATURE = SOME LIVING THING THAT WAS CREATED.

Revelation 3:14 And unto the angel of the community of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness (Prince Michael/Christ - Rev. 1:5), THE BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD;

The moment that God created Michael, God became known as Father (Matt. 6:9), and Michael became His Son (yes, a true Father-Son relationship - 1 John 2:22). And it was in that moment when both time and language began.

After God created Michael, God showed Michael everything, creating everyone and everything else by and for Michael (Col. 1:16).

Hebrews 1:1-4
1:1 God, Who at sundry times and in diverse manners spoke in time past unto the fathers by the Prophets,
1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [His] Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds;
1:3 Who being the brightness of [His] glory, and the express IMAGE of His person, and upholding all things by The Word of His power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of His Majesty on high;
1:4 Being MADE so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 5:19-20
5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do NOTHING of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever He doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and showeth him all things that Himself doeth: and He will show him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

[1DoubtingThomas]

2 peter 1:2

KJ21
Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, according as
ASV
Grace to you and peace be multiplied in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord;
AMP
Grace and peace [that special sense of spiritual well-being] be multiplied to you in the [true, intimate] knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.
AMPC
May grace (Gods favor) and peace (which is perfect well-being, all necessary good, all spiritual prosperity, and freedom from fears and agitating passions and moral conflicts) be multiplied to you in [the full, personal, precise, and correct] knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.
BRG
Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
CSB
May grace and peace be multiplied to you through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.
CSBA
May grace and peace be multiplied to you through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.[Replying to 1DoubtingThomas in post #59]
DARBY
Grace and peace be multiplied to you in [the] knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.
EHV
Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.
ESV
May grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.
ESVUK
May grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.
GNV
Grace and peace be multiplied to you, through the acknowledging of God, and of Jesus Christ our Lord,
GNT
May grace and peace be yours in full measure through your knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.
HCSB
May grace and peace be multiplied to you through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.
JUB
Grace and peace be multiplied unto you in the knowledge of God and of our Lord Jesus,
KJV
Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
AKJV
Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
LSB
Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the full knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord;
LEB
May grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord,MEV
Grace and peace be multiplied to you through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.
MOUNCE
May grace and peace be yours in ever increasing measure through knowledge of God and of Jesus . our Lord.
ISV
May grace and peace be yours in abundance through full knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord!
NABRE
may grace and peace be yours in abundance through knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.
NASB
Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord,
NASB1995
Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord;
NCB
may grace and peace be yours in abundance through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.
NIV
Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.
NKJV
Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord,
NRSVA
May grace and peace be yours in abundance in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.
RSV
May grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.

tygger2, , what are you trying to do with your post shown above? Are you actually showing the membership that the Bible verses that you have shown CONTRADICT my bible verses in my post number 59, and the ungodly embarrassing ramifications thereof???!!!

EXPLAIN:


.

[LightBearer]

[Replying to LightBearer in post #55]


LightBearer,

Your one quote stood out in your post number 55, where you alluded to Jesus not being God, which is BLASPHEME on your part as shown below:

YOU SAID: "It does not say Jesus God though."


Therefore, let me correct your Bible ignorance with the inspired by Jesus' words shown below that is just one of many passages showing that Jesus is God!:

Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours. (2 Peter 1:1)


You can thank me later in your newly founded enlightenment.


.

Thank you for what? Being arrogant? That is not of God my friend.

There is a distinction between God and Jesus in the text you quoted and as a matter of fact in the text that follows it by the conjunction "and". Here is the Greek text with the direct translation and the KJV which agrees in this instance. The translation you used missed the mark with verse one. But that does not matter my friend verse 2 shows you are in error.

1 ... Simon Peter, Bondman And Apostle . Of Jesus Christ, - To Those Who Like Precious - With Us Obtained Faith Through 'The' Righteousness Of Our God And Saviour . Jesus Christ : 2 Grace '- To You And . Peace ..... Be Multiplied In 'The' Knowledge Of God, And . Of Jesus ...... Our Lord.

2Pet 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
2Pet 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

LightBearer, your inept Jewish Bible schooling is that of a 2nd-grader!

Embarrassingly you had to Cherry Pick the King James Bible for what you needed to see, in that you wanted it to show; of our God and our Saviour Jesus Christ, relative to separating the two persons in Jesus not being God!

In turn, I will show you that the majority of Jewish Christian Bibles use the term; of our God and Savior Jesus Christ .... WHICH PRECLUDES JESUS AS GOD!!! ..... LightBearer, if you need further schooling relative to the Granville Sharp Rule is concluding that the 2 noun phrase of God and Savior equals Jesus Christ, Ill be happy to do this for you.


The irony is that the New King James Bible, instead of the older King James Bible that you had to use to insidiously prove your inept position, shows the following that I proposed in my post number 56 regarding 2 Peter 1:1!;





.

Subjective at best. You should stop posturing. Pride is not of God either.

And I posted the Greek at the forefront. I could care less about any version. Only used the KJV because it was convenient. With that said the translation of verse one in the KJV doesn't prove one thing or another. So you bringing that up is pointless. Verse 2 however shoots your thought down immediately.

As was said verse 2 dispels Granville sharp's rule in respect to verse one. Context is king and in verse 2 a distinction is definitely made. And interestingly enough out of the six verses Sharp tried to apply his rule to most scholars reject 4 of them. As a matter of fact the whole reason he came up with the rule was to prove the Trinity. Just that little tibit should make one wonder.

Something else needs to be noted also, I am not arguing for or against a Trinity. So you should probably drop those accusations also.

[tygger2]

Of the many reasons invalidating Sharp's Rule grammatically there are at least two of extreme importance - each of which is conclusive by itself.

(1) Prepositional Constructions (with phrases containing prepositions: "of God;" "in the Lord;" "God of...;" etc.) are known by NT grammarians to cause uncertainty of article usage. That is, if a prepositional phrase (including genitives) is attached to a word, that word may sometimes have the article ("the") and sometimes not have it -- without changing the intended meaning! (See A. T. Robertson, pp. 780, 790, 791; C. F. D. Moule, p. 117; J. H. Moulton, pp. 175, 179-180; et al.)

This means that the NT writers sometimes wrote, for example, "The God of me" (with article) and "_God of me" (without article) with exactly the same intended meaning. The definite article ("the") was ambiguous in such cases.

Therefore any grammatical rules which depend on the presence or absence of the article in the NT Greek must not use as examples those scriptures which use a 'prepositional' construction attached to a word (noun) in question if they are to be used honestly and properly.

But if you examine the 5 trinitarian "proofs" given by Sharp, you will see that they all use such prepositional constructions: "of us" in (a) Titus 2:13 and (b) 2 Peter 1:1 is a "prepositional" genitive, and even "savior" itself is a genitive in both scriptures and literally means "of savior;" "Lord" in (c) 2 Thess. 1:12 is a genitive and literally means "of Lord" (as rendered in the Modern Language Bible; Living Bible; Good News Bible; Douay Version; New American Bible [1970 ed.]; and Barclay's Daily Study Bible); "Christ" in (d)1 Tim. 5:21 is a genitive and literally means "of Christ" (as in the Good News Bible [and TEV]; New American Standard Bible; Modern Language Bible; Revised Standard Version; and New Revised Standard Version); and "God" in (e) Eph. 5:5 is a genitive and literally means "of God" (as in the King James Version; Revised Standard Version; New Revised Standard Version; Living Bible; New English Bible; Revised English Bible; Modern Language Bible; New American Bible (1970 and 1991); Douay Version; New International Version; Good News Bible; and Phillips translation).

Therefore all 5 Sharp's "proofs" are invalid on the basis of prepositional constructions alone![Replying to LightBearer in post #62]

[tygger2]

Of the many reasons invalidating Sharp's Rule grammatically there are at least two of extreme importance - each of which is conclusive by itself.

(2) New Testament scholars, including noted trinitarian NT grammar experts, point out that the use of proper names ("John," "Moses," "Jesus," etc.) also causes uncertain article usage in NT Greek. (A. T. Robertson, Grammar, p. 791, and Word Pictures, p. 46, Vol. iv; C. F. D. Moule, p. 115; J. H. Moulton [Turner], Vol. 3, pp. 165-167; et. al.)

So not only did the NT Bible writers sometimes use the article and sometimes not use the article with the very same intended meaning with the very same proper name (e.g. "the James" and "James"), but even when a proper name is used as an appositive it also causes irregular article usage with the other associated nouns. - Robertson, pp. 760, 791.

For example, when "Jesus" and "Christ" are in apposition to each other ("Jesus Christ" or "Christ Jesus"), they are nearly always (96% of the time - see SHARP study) written without the definite article in the writings of Paul regardless of "Sharp's rule" or any other grammatical/syntactical consideration!

If we examine the first 4 of the 5 "proofs" above, we see that the proper name "Jesus" is used as an appositive with the word in question in each case! In other words, "Christ Jesus" is the appositive for "savior" in Titus 2:13. This means sometimes "savior" will have "the" with it in such a situation and sometimes it won't (with no change in meaning). "Jesus Christ" is the appositive for "savior" in 2 Peter 1:1, and article usage (or non-usage) with "savior" in the original NT Greek in such circumstances is virtually meaningless. "Jesus Christ" is in apposition to (an appositive for) "Lord" in 2 Thess. 1:12. And "Jesus" is in apposition (at least) to "Christ" in 1 Tim. 5:21. These examples, therefore, are completely invalid as evidence for Jesus being God even if there were actually some validity to Sharp's "Rule" with proper examples! And the 5th example, Eph. 5:5, is incredibly poor in context alone. Even noted trinitarian scholar A.T. Robertson has to admit that the 'evidence' of Eph. 5:5 is doubtful - Word Pictures, Vol. 4, pp. 46 and 543. No objective person could accept it alone as real evidence of Jesus' Godhood!
[Replying to tygger2 in post #63]

[1DoubtingThomas]

[Replying to LightBearer in post #55]



LightBearer, your inept Jewish Bible schooling is that of a 2nd-grader!

Embarrassingly you had to Cherry Pick the King James Bible for what you needed to see, in that you wanted it to show; of our God and our Saviour Jesus Christ, relative to separating the two persons in Jesus not being God!

In turn, I will show you that the majority of Jewish Christian Bibles use the term; of our God and Savior Jesus Christ .... WHICH PRECLUDES JESUS AS GOD!!! ..... LightBearer, if you need further schooling relative to the Granville Sharp Rule is concluding that the 2 noun phrase of God and Savior equals Jesus Christ, Ill be happy to do this for you.


The irony is that the New King James Bible, instead of the older King James Bible that you had to use to insidiously prove your inept position, shows the following that I proposed in my post number 56 regarding 2 Peter 1:1!;

Subjective at best. You should stop posturing. Pride is not of God either.

And I posted the Greek at the forefront. I could care less about any version. Only used the KJV because it was convenient. With that said the translation of verse one in the KJV doesn't prove one thing or another. So you bringing that up is pointless. Verse 2 however shoots your thought down immediately.

As was said verse 2 dispels Granville sharp's rule in respect to verse one. Context is king and in verse 2 a distinction is definitely made. And interestingly enough out of the six verses Sharp tried to apply his rule to most scholars reject 4 of them. As a matter of fact the whole reason he came up with the rule was to prove the Trinity. Just that little tibit should make one wonder.

Something else needs to be noted also, I am not arguing for or against a Trinity. So you should probably drop those accusations also.

LightBearer, okay, it is obvious that I can't have a rational discussion with you, because you came up with many lame-brained excuses of why Jesus isn't god, and more so than not, they are from your Satanic pseudo-christian Apologetic Books that are making you look BIBLE DUMBER than before!!!

Therefore LightBearer, I am going to save you time in embarrassing yourself in front of the Atheists again and again and again, with the direct passages below stating in fact, THAT JESUS IS GOD! Understood?!


1. "Then he said to Thomas, Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe. Thomas answered him, My Lord and my God! (John 20:27-28)

LightBearer, do you want to call Thomas a LIAR which is Blaspheme?!


2. JESUS ADMITS HE IS GOD: Jesus answered: "Don"t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, Show us the Father? (John 14:9)

LightBearer, do you want to call Jesus a LIAR, which is extreme Blaspheme!


3. Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory. (1 Timothy 3:16)

LightBearer, do you want to call Timothy a LIAR as well?


I have only given you three bible passages that show Jesus in being the brutal serial killer Jesus as God of innocent infants and babies (1 Samuel 15:2-3)



LightBearer, YOU are excused for now, that is, unless you want to become more Bible Stupid than you are now with another weak refutation to my biblical FACTS shown above that Jesus is in fact, God, GET IT?!



.

[1DoubtingThomas]

[Replying to 1DoubtingThomas in post #61]




tygger2,

Are you going to respond to my post number 61 or not, in showing the membership that said post of yours is contradicting the Jewish Christian Bible in my post number 59!

RATIONALLY EXPLAIN:



.

[otseng]

Moderator Intervention

The overall tone of many posts in this thread have not been civil. Please review the Rules and cease from the personal attacks.


______________

Moderator interventions do not count as a strike against any posters. They are given at the discretion of a moderator when he or she feels that some sort of intervention is required.

[OneJack]

[Replying to A Freeman in post #4]

Havent you read in John 17:3 that the Son says [to the public] that they may know the Father [as] Jesus Christ whom He (Father) has sent? The first one, prior to this statement of the Son, is that they may know Him (Father) the only true God.

[Capbook]

It does not say Jesus God though.

Consider what John said in chapter 17.

John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

May I know what's your point here with those quoted verses above?

From literal word for word Bible translations that aims to maintain the highest accuracy to the original languages, NAS95 renders John 1:18, Jesus as "the only begotten God", supported by oldest manuscripts, the papyrus 66 and papyrus 75. That was described as the "original wordings" of the verse. For me, oldest manuscripts are less prone to copyist errors or additions to later ones.

Jhn 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to A Freeman in post #4]

Havent you read in John 17:3 that the Son says [to the public] that they may know the Father [as] Jesus Christ whom He (Father) has sent? The first one, prior to this statement of the Son, is that they may know Him (Father) the only true God.

I would just like to point out that although this explanation is in line with the Jehovah's Witness interpretation, the poster is not to my knowledge one of JEHOVAHS WITNESSES.