IS WITCHCRAFT GOOD OR EVIL?

[acehighinfinity]

[Replying to post 106 by Divine Insight]
DIVINE INSIGHT:

Moreover, I find the verse that you have posted to be quite interesting and I use it frequently to defend my witchcraft against Christian criticism. The Christians often claim that witches get their power from Satan (just as Jesus had been accused of in the verse you've quoted).

However, like Jesus I use my powers for good works. Therefore, for the very same reasons that Jesus gave my powers cannot come from Beelzebub (or Satan) because a house divided against itself cannot stand.

Therefore my powers necessarily must come from God, for precisely the same reasons that Jesus gave.

If what Jesus spoke is truth, then clearly it must also apply to me. I cannot do good works in the name of Beelzebub, demons, or Satan because that would be a house divided against itself.

So I find it rather humorous that Jesus himself has totally vindicated all witches who do good works. Because their power (according to Jesus) can only come from God. Only God's power can be used for good works.

I would like to invite you here DIVINE INSIGHT
The above post caught my attention and I would like to bring this to the light. Now in another thread I am under the impression you study Buddhism but claim not to be a Buddhist, correct?

I am totally against WitchCraft according to the Holy Bible:
Deuteronomy 18:14 "The nations you will dispossess listen to those who practice sorcery or divination. But as for you, the Lord your God has not permitted you to do so."
Revelation 22:15 "Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood."
Leviticus 19:26 "Do not practice divination or seek omens"
...the list goes on.

Questions:
If Divine Insight claim to use WitchCraft for good, then could you or anyone else list those examples please?
Does one see WitchCraft as Good? or
Does one see WitchCraft as Evil?

Feel free to add on.

Thanks in advance,
Ace

[Divine Insight]

Hey DI, my wonderful friend!

That isn't what Jesus said, DI. The Pharisees were accusing Jesus of casting out demons in the name of Beelzebul, the Prince of demons. This is when Jesus said, that a house divided against itself will not stand, for how can Satan drive out Satan?

Do have a glorious day!!

That'll do just fine.

Clearly demonic possession is just a metaphor for people who want to do evil things anyway.

In fact, it always seemed strange to me the Christianity proposed that people who want to do evil things are possessed by demons. If the whole idea is that humans are supposed to have free will and freely chose to do evil things then why should we need to blame their evil choices on demonic possession?

That seems to fly in the very face of humans choosing to do evil things on their own free will.

So clearly an witch who uses magic to do good things can only be obtaining his or her power from a source of goodness. And according to Jesus, and to Christians God is the only source of goodness.

Therefore good witches have been exonerated by Jesus as having obtained their power from "God". For if their obtained their power from an evil source that would be a power that is divided against itself.

[Divine Insight]

Yes I support all bible teachings. They don't all apply to me or my time and context but I believe everything in the bible is the word of God and He has my wholehearted support for all He has ever done or said.

That's great that the Biblical God has your support. I'm sure he is very pleased that you support him.

Today? No because applying that law to the Christian era is not, in my opinon, a bible teaching.

It was a teaching attributed to Jesus. Do you reject the teachings of Jesus?

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

How can you claim to be a "Christian" when you reject the teachings of Jesus?

If you believe in this horrific Bible you most certainly should demand it in the name of your God.

In your opinion. You are aware I hope that your opinion is not the only one possible.

I just go by what the Bible actually says.

[JehovahsWitness]

It was a teaching attributed to Jesus. Do you reject the teachings of Jesus?

In YOU OPINION Jesus taught that however, may I respectfully remind you that just because something is your opinion it does not make it correct.

It was a teaching attributed to Jesus. Do you reject the teachings of Jesus?

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

I fully accept what Jesus taught, I just do not accect YOUR UNDERSTANDING of what Jesus was saying in this passage. Can you grasp the difference between the words of Jesus and YOUR UNDERSTANDING of the words of Jesus? Or are you suggesting that your interpretation of Jesus' words is the only one possible? Feel free to share if you feel you have the absolute understanding of all Jesus said and did. I happen to understand Jesus words differently than you evidently do.

When it comes to biblical interpretation, everyone especially those who are "literalists" must be aware that there are other schools of thought.

I just go by what the Bible actually says.

Well you THINK you do, I'm sure you believe you do... unfortunately, that doesn't necessarily mean that you do. You believe you understand what the bible says, I respect that, but that doesn't mean you do actually understand the bible or Jesus words regarding the law or any other topic. It only means you believe sincerely you understand what the bible says. I respect your beliefs in this regard, but that doesn't make them contextualy, linguistically or biblically accurate.

Sorry.

Respectfully,
JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

[Bust Nak]

When it comes to biblical interpretation, everyone especially those who are "literalists" must be aware that there are other schools of thought.

Don't you find it ironic given you've recently stated that it is a fact that the Bible contains mandates to avoid witchcraft. Isn't that merely your literal interpretation? Maybe said mandate does not apply to the Christian era, could that be a valid interpretation? It is after all, a fact that the Bible DOES contain mandate to kill witches?

[JehovahsWitness]

Maybe said mandate does not apply to the Christian era, could that be a valid interpretation?

Yes, that is exactly what I said, see post # post 110 ]

[Peds nurse]

Hey DI, my wonderful friend!

That isn't what Jesus said, DI. The Pharisees were accusing Jesus of casting out demons in the name of Beelzebul, the Prince of demons. This is when Jesus said, that a house divided against itself will not stand, for how can Satan drive out Satan?

Do have a glorious day!!

That'll do just fine.

Clearly demonic possession is just a metaphor for people who want to do evil things anyway.

Matthew 9:32 "While they were going out, a man who was demon-possessed and could not talk was brought to Jesus. And when the demon was driven out, the man who had been mute spoke."

How is that wanting to be evil? There is also the demons that taunted a man so severe that he was pushed out of town, and people couldn't even walk by. So, Jesus sent them into a herd of swine. How is that wanting to be possessed?

In fact, it always seemed strange to me the Christianity proposed that people who want to do evil things are possessed by demons. If the whole idea is that humans are supposed to have free will and freely chose to do evil things then why should we need to blame their evil choices on demonic possession?

Not everyone who does evil is possessed by a demon. I have never heard of that even being a possibility.

So clearly an witch who uses magic to do good things can only be obtaining his or her power from a source of goodness. And according to Jesus, and to Christians God is the only source of goodness.

If a witch, a warlock, or whatever, calls on goodness by any other name than Jesus, according to scripture...it isn't good.

Therefore good witches have been exonerated by Jesus as having obtained their power from "God". For if their obtained their power from an evil source that would be a power that is divided against itself.

Well, that isn't true if they are not worshiping God, because then they would be putting a God before Him, and that isn't good at all. People can do good things apart from God.

[Divine Insight]

Or are you suggesting that your interpretation of Jesus' words is the only one possible?

No, of course not. To the contrary I realize that my understanding of Christianity mythology is potentially on equal footing with yours, and all the other disagreeing sects of Christianity.

But that's all it needs to be. It only need to be on equal footing.

This places my interpretations right alongside any Christian theologian, apologist, or clergy as having precisely equal value.

I respect your beliefs in this regard, but that doesn't make them contextualy, linguistically or biblically accurate.

Sorry.

Respectfully,
JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

But if you don't allow that they could be contextually, linguistically, or biblical accurate, then you can hardly claim to "respect" them.

If you expect me to respect your beliefs, then you need to respect mine equally. Therefore all you can say is that you "believe differently" period.

In short, you could never "preach" to me, or even claim to have a superior understanding to mine of these ancient fables of an ancient Christian demigod. So your claim that I have anything "wrong" is unwarranted. Especially if you are going to use Jesus to condemn witches as being "evil".

You don't see me using Jesus as an excuse to condemn anyone do you?

And besides how can you possibly use Jesus to condemn witches when Jesus never mentioned witches in the NT? The only way you could use Jesus to condemn witches if you resort to using Matthew 5:18. You NEED to have Jesus backing up every jot and tittle of the OT if you are going to condemn witches in Jesus' name.

I've already shown why Jesus himself has exonerated all "Good Witches" from having anything to do with any evil powers. They can hardly do good work against evil if they are obtaining their power from the very source of evil.

So there you have it. Jesus supports good witchcraft. That was his excuse for having performed the same. If his excuse holds for him, then it necessarily has to hold for everyone.

It's really that simple.

[Divine Insight]

Matthew 9:32 "While they were going out, a man who was demon-possessed and could not talk was brought to Jesus. And when the demon was driven out, the man who had been mute spoke."

How is that wanting to be evil?

That's exactly my point. Therefore if a witch does this same thing then he or she qualifies for the same excuse Jesus used. If Jesus can claim that his magical powers can only come from God because he does good works, then this same excuse necessarily must apply to everyone.

Not everyone who does evil is possessed by a demon. I have never heard of that even being a possibility.

Well, if we need to claim that demonic possession is real then this places the Jesus stories in the same category with Greek Mythology. In today's modern world we know that none of these medical and mental disorders are caused by demonic possession.

Aren't you a nurse? Surely you don't still believe in demonic boogieman. Often time when a witch helps someone overcome a psychological problem they are having they too are said to have "driven out an evil demon" but in reality all they really did was help the person see the folly of their mental delusions.

Witchcraft isn't nearly what you might think it is.

If a witch, a warlock, or whatever, calls on goodness by any other name than Jesus, according to scripture...it isn't good.

Can you show me where it actually says this in the New Testament?

Therefore good witches have been exonerated by Jesus as having obtained their power from "God". For if their obtained their power from an evil source that would be a power that is divided against itself.

Well, that isn't true if they are not worshiping God, because then they would be putting a God before Him, and that isn't good at all. People can do good things apart from God.

Jealous Gods who behave as immature egotistical spoiled brats demanding that no one put any other Gods before them lest they will unleash their immature wrath deserve no respect from anyone.

May I ask why you would believe in a religion that claims that your creator is like that?

I would never dream of insulting my creator by choosing to believe in the egotistical barbaric misogynistic God of the Hebrews.

Why would I want to insult my creator by choosing that religion to describe my creator?

There are far more respectable religions to be had. Why not choose one of those?

Shouldn't your choice of religion reflect what YOU think God should be like?

Do you think God should be a jealous egotistical misogynistic wrathful spoiled brat who threatens to unleash his immature wrath upon anyone who refuses to love, worship, and obey him?

If you met a man who behaved that way and demanded that you become his wife, love him, and obey his every command without question would you marry him?

If not, then why would you marry the Biblical God? He's basically no different from the man I just described.

[Bust Nak]

Maybe said mandate does not apply to the Christian era, could that be a valid interpretation?

Yes, that is exactly what I said, see post # post 110 ]

I am sure there is miscommunication here. You were saying killing witches no longer applies now. I am asking you whether believing "LEVITICUS 19:26 you must not practice magic" no longer applies in the Christian era is a valid interpretation?

[JehovahsWitness]

But if you don't allow that they could be contextually, linguistically, or biblical accurate, then you can hardly claim to "respect" them.

Respect doesn't mean accept something that is wrong as right, it simply means accept and tolerate, to give due weight to someone or something. People's beliefs are very dear to them, even if they are wrong I try and deal with beliefs in a way that reflects that fact. I suppose I should have said I respect YOU (since you are human and I believe all humans reflect some of God's qualities to a certain extent) and accept (and tolerate) that you have that belief, even if it's wrong.

If you expect me to respect your beliefs ...

I don't "expect" you to do anything. If you don't want to respect my beliefs I can live with that. Of course it would be nice, but it would be nice if someone were to Knock on my door and offer me a million dollars no strings attached. I can't say I expect that, and certainly don't in "exchange" for me living my life as honestly as I know how.


Hope that helps,

JW