Did Jesus come in disguise?

[Wootah]

Assuming the story as true.

Did Jesus birth and later actions reflect that he came in disguise, hidden from the world and hiding his intentions?

As one example. His birth is the total opposite of what we expected for a king.

As another example. His servant like attitude is the total opposite of a king.

Did Jesus come in disguise?

[dio9]

[Replying to Wootah]

I see where you can get this , a theme running through Marks Gospel is secrecy, don't tell anyone I am the Messiah, he says this after every miracle. Read the Gospel of Mark and note how many times he does this. Also there are his explanations of his parables to only his disciples. His point was something like " they hear but do not hear and see but do not see" .
I don't know what the point of this secrecy/ disguise is , what do you think?

[Wootah]

I think it is directly related to winning, but not the world's way. Just like in the OT when God would win battles for Israel that no one in Israel could boast about but could only boast in God's power.

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 1 by Wootah]

Like undercover boss? Maybe. Although, even we humans know that people never keep a secret long. God or someone serving him, would know the same. Must have been the way he wanted it released to the world. Or a human invention afterwards?

[FWI]

[Replying to post 1 by Wootah]

Did Jesus come in disguise?

No, he did not. The story about the three wise men from the east and the actions of Herod (Matthew 2) surely shows there is no disguise or deceit. The wise men acknowledged the Christ as a king and Herod feared this. We can also review the story written about his arrest, where the Christ states that he was teaching openly in the temple (and elsewhere) and they now are coming to him with swords and clubs as if he was a robber. This isn't referring to an individual, who is trying to disguise himself and/or his message.

Did Jesus birth and later actions reflect that he came in disguise, hidden from the world and hiding his intentions?

No, this also isn't true. There are about 2.3 billion Christians (presumed Gentiles) and about 1.8 billion Muslims and about 350,000 Jews, who acknowledge the Christ existed during the first century CE. So, when we review the beginnings of his earthly ministry and how it started (with only a few individuals) yet, has grown to over 4 billion who acknowledge he existed, this surely can't be construed as being a man in disguise.

As one example. His birth is the total opposite of what we expected for a king. As another example. His servant like attitude is the total opposite of a king.

Well, this clearly shows that "the norm" for what a king should be and how he should act is all screwed-up. The Son of God was not sent to follow the ways of the world or man, but the ways of God.

[Divine Insight]

Assuming the story as true.

Did Jesus birth and later actions reflect that he came in disguise, hidden from the world and hiding his intentions?

As one example. His birth is the total opposite of what we expected for a king.

As another example. His servant like attitude is the total opposite of a king.

Did Jesus come in disguise?

This problem stems from the fact that the Jewish Messiah was supposed to become the King of the Jews and bring peace to all nations.

The fact is that Jesus never became king. It simply never happened.

So the prophesy was simply never fulfilled. This is why the Jews do not view Jesus as the promised Messiah, he simply didn't fulfill that prophesy.

The Christians keep proclaiming that Jesus is the "King of Kings". But that doesn't fulfill prophesy. Jesus never became a king at all, much less the king of kings.

So it's not a question of the messiah coming in "disguise", it's simply a matter of the prophesy of a promised messiah having never been fulfilled.

Ironically even the Christians recognize this problem but seem to be oblivious to what it actually means. Jesus never became king. But the messiah was supposed to become king. Therefore Jesus could not have been the prophesied messiah. Period.

[JehovahsWitness]

The fact is that Jesus never became king. It simply never happened.

QUESTION Did Jesus become a king?

Jesus most certainly did become king; he never became king during his earthly ministry, he was made king after his death and subsequent resurrection to heaven. Jesus quite clearly referred to "his" kingdom and someone that "owns" or has a kingdom is a KING. He was also clear his kingdom was not to be earthly in source or origin.

JOHN 18:36

Jesus answered: “My Kingdom is no part of this world. ... my Kingdom is not from this source.

LUKE 22:29

I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom

1 TIMOTHY 6:15

He is the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords

PHILIPIANS 2:9-11

For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground - and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

MATTHEW 28:18
Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.

All scriptures NWT



JW






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[FWI]

This problem stems from the fact that the Jewish Messiah was supposed to become the King of the Jews and bring peace to all nations.

This isn't what traditional Judaism claims. The Messiah is not mentioned explicitly in the Torah, but there are several references to "the latter days," which is considered to be the time of the Messiah. Yet, the belief of when this will occur is quite telling. Most Jewish authorities suggest that the conduct of mankind will determine the time of the Messiah's coming. In general, it is believed that the Messiah will come in a time when he is most needed (because the world is so evil), or in a time when he is most deserved (because the world is so good). For example, each of the following has been suggested as the time when the Messiah will come:

*When all Israel has repented in a single day
*When all Israel observes a single Sabbath properly
*In a generation that is totally innocent or totally guilty
*In a generation that loses all hope
*In a generation where children are totally disrespectful towards their parents
and elders

So, it is clear that traditional Judaism didn't expect the Messiah to come for quite a long time.

[Divine Insight]

Jesus most certainly did become king; he never became king during his earthly ministry, he was made king after his death and subsequent resurrection to heaven.

But you could hardly call that "prophesy fulfilled". There's no way to verify that this outrageous supernatural claim ever actually happened.

The Messiah was also supposed to bring peace among all nations. The Christians claim that this prophesy will be fulfilled when Jesus returns. But again, we can hardly point to something that hasn't even happened yet as being "prophesy fulfilled".

In short, the Christians try to fulfill prophesy by making claims about Jesus that are either impossible to verify or have never actually happened. Neither of which is very impressive. It's no wonder that the Jews have rejected Christianity. And ironically this was their religion originally. The Christians were the outsider pagans who stole the religion from the Jews and made Jesus into a God that was never predicted by the original Jewish religion.

And as I always point out, we need to look no further than the Great Flood to know that Christianity isn't compatible with the original biblical God. It doesn't make any sense to have a God drowning out sinners at one point in time only to change his mind later and offer humanity undeserved amnesty for their sins by having humans crucify God on a pole.

Christianity simply isn't compatible with the Old Testament God at all.

The God of the Old Testament commanded that men are to stone sinners to death. Jesus rejected that command and even acted like as if this was somehow the idea of men. It was never the idea of men to stone sinners to death, they were doing it precisely because the God of the Bible had commanded them to do it.

So Jesus wasn't even remotely compatible with the Old Testament religion.

We could try to argue that the old religion must have then been flawed in some way, but even that doesn't work because the New Testament has Jesus proclaiming that he did not come to change the law and that not one jot or tittle of the law shall be changed. Even though just about everything he taught was in direct conflict with the laws of the Old Testament.

So Christianity isn't even compatible with the original religion from which is claims to have sprung. There's simply no way that Jesus could have been the Son of Yahweh. Especially in a monotheistic religion where Jesus isn't even permitted to be anything short of Yahweh himself.

[Divine Insight]

So, it is clear that traditional Judaism didn't expect the Messiah to come for quite a long time.

That doesn't match up with the Gospels rumors. According to the Gospel rumors the coming of a messiah was indeed expected to be imminent. In fact, many secular naturalists point to this fact as it explains what actually sparked these rumors. John the Baptist was preaching of the coming of the messiah.

So to say that this wasn't expected makes no sense.