How did Jesus grow so big?

[marco]

Having read umpteen defences, eulogies, apologias for Jesus, I am persuaded he was perhaps a well-intentioned man. Obviously reports about him have erased any flaws, as one would expect so we read between the lines for negatives.

Anyway he appeared on the preaching circuit at thirty and gave the impression he was God-sent. His oratory used a warm connection between himself and his Father. If God did speak from the sky then that's all there is to it. I don't believe he did, so I see the gospels as containing lies and this seems obvious when we read Matthew.



Why are we still discussing Jesus today in countries he had no clue about? Is the endurance of his name evidence of truth? Or what factors, outside of Christ's control, might have built a giant religion?

[JehovahsWitness]

WAS JESUS GREAT?

"A man's greatness can be measured by what he leaves to grow, and whether he started others to think along fresh lines with a vigor that persisted after him. By this test Jesus stands first." - H G Wells

“I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept his claim to be God. That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God, but let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to - . Lewis, Mere Christianity

Shall we say that the gospel story is the work of the imagination? ... it would be still more incredible that several persons should have agreed together to invent such a book, than that there was one man who supplied its subject matter. The tone and morality of this story are not those of any Jewish authors, and the gospel indeed contains characters so great, so striking, so entirely inimitable, that their invention would be more astonishing than their hero. -- Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Emile Or, On Education, p. 256

"As a child, I received instruction both in the Bible and in the Talmud. I am a Jew, but I am enthralled by the luminous figure of Jesus the Nazarene." -


Albert Einstein, German-born scientist

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JESUS, CHRISTIANITY, and ...RELIGIOUS TRUTH

[marco]

"As a child, I received instruction both in the Bible and in the Talmud. I am a Jew, but I am enthralled by the luminous figure of Jesus the Nazarene." ]-


Albert Einstein

For a moment I thought Einstein's ghost had paid us a visit, but I know the quote too well. It is rather sad that we have a fine chance to discuss here and instead of offering ideas, opinions, recondite facts we just list some important dead people.

Basically, Christ has been fanned into flame by a variety of sources. The luminous figure Einstein saw was an amalgam of many ideas. He was so luminous that all he ever wrote was a scribble in the dust. If we regard Jesus as the founder of the first Pope, we get an idea of how his name was made great. Remember, it was the greatness of a Pope that frightened the dreaded Attila, Scourge of God.

[SallyF]

Fashion is one of the reasons the notion of Jesus grew so big.

Ladies of leisure are wont to dabble in all sorts of ennui-busting divertimenti.

The Christian form of Judaism became fashionable amongst women at the very highest level of Roman society.

Emperor Constantine's mother embraced the Jesus fantasy and even found the "true cross" … really!



And if your mum loves Jesus, who are you to not indulge her …?

And keep your options open with all the other versions of "God" that the people imagined back then.

And if the emperor and his mum followed this mansion-in-heaven, human-sacrifice, drinking-pretend-blood religion, then the sheeple from the lower classes are SURE to imitate the fashion of their betters.

As they always do.

[1213]

...Why are we still discussing Jesus today in countries he had no clue about? Is the endurance of his name evidence of truth? Or what factors, outside of Christ's control, might have built a giant religion?

I think that is a good question. Perhaps atheists should not try so hard to fight against God, because:

Now I tell you, withdraw from these men, and leave them alone. For if this counsel or this work is of men, it will be overthrown. But if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow it, and you would be found even to be fighting against God!"
Acts 5:38-39

Many have tried and failed. I believe in near future we will see very evil and heavy attack against Christianity again, because it can be really annoying for those who hate God and truth that the message just doesn’t die as so many people want.

[Tcg]

I think that is a good question. Perhaps atheists should not try so hard to fight against God, because:

Atheists don't "fight against God." We simply lack belief that god/gods exist. It's such a straightforward concept one has to wonder why so many misrepresent it.

Perhaps you can explain your motivation for doing so.


Tcg

[marco]

Many have tried and failed. I believe in near future we will see very evil and heavy attack against Christianity again, because it can be really annoying for those who hate God and truth that the message just doesn’t die as so many people want.

Christianity has displayed many colours. The vast majority of Christians have been Roman Catholic. If my choice is Christianity or Islam, I will happily wander down to church since I've grown accustomed to having my head.

You may be lucky in your country but in others Christian congregations are dwindling, though I hear that Christianity is healthy in S. Korea.

I don't think any of this has much to do with Christ but everything to do with religious politics. The meek and the poor in spirit are still meek and poor in spirit, after 2000 years. Of course for all we know they may be ruling in heaven.

[William]

marco: Having read umpteen defences, eulogies, apologias for Jesus, I am persuaded he was perhaps a well-intentioned man. Obviously reports about him have erased any flaws, as one would expect so we read between the lines for negatives.

Anyway he appeared on the preaching circuit at thirty and gave the impression he was God-sent. His oratory used a warm connection between himself and his Father. If God did speak from the sky then that's all there is to it. I don't believe he did, so I see the gospels as containing lies and this seems obvious when we read Matthew.



Why are we still discussing Jesus today in countries he had no clue about? Is the endurance of his name evidence of truth? Or what factors, outside of Christ's control, might have built a giant religion?


William: Yes a fascinating subject with some interesting opinions.
I see though, that when leaving out important bits of the whole story, how people can come to their ... current...opinions.

Top priority in the neglected data is that Jesus was more interested in The Fathers Kingdom and encouraging folk who would listen, to link into that.
Apparently the time was ripe to make the move and Jesus provoked the Authorities by his outspokenness because he knew of the consequences of doing so and urged those who followed him to do likewise, if they felt so inclined.

It is a human drama problem which Jesus entered into in order to create a ripple effect which would help change things in The Realm of Judgement - a Human creation given life through the properties of The Metaphysical - The Fathers 'House - Mansions', where everything fits into its place.

Human Sacrifice was still going on then, even as it is now, because that is part of The Human Drama...some - apparently - unquenchable desire to spill blood, which is all fine and dandy until one brings The Gods into it, and all hell breaks loose.

Jesus is The Gateway out of that Human Drama which demands blood sacrifice...

We cannot be sure as too how much Roman Propaganda come with The Bible, but it is fair to estimate that the majority of the writ is infected, but we can say that Rome did bring it down a few notches, even that it took centuries for things to calm down sufficiently.

The God Jesus was created, and now rules The Realm of Judgment, as its only Prosecutor, and the task is run by The Judgmental Algorithm of which - all who are infected - succumb to, as a matter of preference. It is what they want. They allow the Algorithm to run...That is their Mansion being prepared.

[Menotu]

[Replying to post 1 by marco]

How did Jesus grow so big?

Diet and exercise I'd suspect - maybe natural supplement of the day?

Why are we still discussing Jesus today in countries he had no clue about? Is the endurance of his name evidence of truth? Or what factors, outside of Christ's control, might have built a giant religion?

The church became powerful and influential. It spread when it realized it can control people and take their money. Once governments started to recognize it as legit (much like Scientology has become recognized as 'legit' in recent years) the church was able to hide behind many laws to protect while while continuing its influence (Scientology is following this same path).
But none of this would be possible without a hint of truthfulness within its teachings. That's not to say the Christianity is true and just by any means, but the best cons always include a grain of truth on which many can latch.

[marco]

Top priority in the neglected data is that Jesus was more interested in The Fathers Kingdom and encouraging folk who would listen, to link into that.

That would be hard for the best of his audience given Christ admitted he did not know what the Father knew and "man had not seen nor had it entered his heart the things God was preparing..." Obviously a good preacher relies a lot on guesswork about the next world. There's enough in what is reported about Christ to deal with. We already know he erred when he guessed what might be: He would return soon, and did not.

It is a human drama problem which Jesus entered into in order to create a ripple effect which would help change things in The Realm of Judgement - a Human creation given life through the properties of The Metaphysical - The Fathers 'House - Mansions', where everything fits into its place.

I don't think the simple Christ who told folk to be nice, pray, look up to the sky where God is and be thankful for bread …. had any conception of ripple effects. His heaven was possibly half way to the sun, populated with legions of unemployed angels.

Human Sacrifice was still going on then, even as it is now, because that is part of The Human Drama...some - apparently - unquenchable desire to spill blood, which is all fine and dandy until one brings The Gods into it, and all hell breaks loose.

I'm not clear on what you mean by using "human sacrifice" figuratively or what you are concluding about hell breaking loose. I can understand that when man turns to worship gods, he causes chaos, and death. Especially today.

Jesus is The Gateway out of that Human Drama which demands blood sacrifice...

Well that's a theory hard to prove. The human drama that I am in does not ask for "blood sacrifice" but the human drama of Christianity has blood sacrifice at its core.

[marco]

and the task is run by The Judgmental Algorithm of which - all who are infected - succumb to, as a matter of preference. It is what they want. They allow the Algorithm to run...That is their Mansion being prepared.

I can truthfully say that Kant and Hume perplexed my adolescence less than did this statement, William. I can see that "algorithms" occupy a forceful part of your theology, but how they "run" things is unclear. For simpletons like Marco, an algorithm is just a set of steps to be followed, perhaps involving dividing, then subtracting, then further division until an answer falls out.


Jesus seems to have been a simple, decent-living Nazarene who might have learned a lot had his parents sent him to Athens for an education. But the local lad walked a mile or so here, a mile or so round a lake there, talking of a shepherd herding his flock and composing, like Hans Andersen, simple tales that contain happy little morals.

His unfortunate brush with the prevailing religious forces is not unlike what might happen if someone today wandered near Mecca and advertised himself as the new Muhammad. Obviously we have advanced a little from crucifixion, so perhaps stoning would have been the means of bringing billions of misguided worshippers redemption for their sins.

He was cruelly killed then cleverly used. His compensation is that his name survives, albeit in a form he would have disliked. But given immortality we can hardly complain of its wrappings.