Moderator: Moderators
So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?Luke 16:
6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.
You (general plural "you" as in "one") can never understand the Christian scriptures (New Testament) if you reject or ignore the Hebrew bible.Monta wrote: As for Eccl. - 'the dead know nothing' I'd stick to the New Testament. It was obvious from Jesus words that the Jews did not understand their scripture and if they did not we should presume that we would. It was written byy correspondences and representations we do not know much about.
RELATED POSTS
What should I do if I am unhappy with my religion ?
viewtopic.php?p=1060640#p1060640
How can a person find religious truth?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 83#p795583
What is "truth"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 24#p840124
How does one come to accept something as true?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 55#p838455
How do Jehovah's Witnesses view the bible?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 25#p873125
Jehovah's Witness defend the bible
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 43#p867843
To learn more please go to other posts related to...
JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES , CHRISTIANITY and ...RELIGIOUS TRUTH
No, not all that, because it is mostly other than what Revelation 20 tells us, and is thus adding to scripture.
Because what you say, what you claim, is a scenario not stated or implied in Revelation 20, the only scripture about the "one thousand years".Please tell me why my take on Revelation 20 is "other than" what you say Revelation 20 tells us.
I guess I could say that I have arrived at the same conclusions. I feel that Jehovah is the inspirer of the Bible, and I'm not up-in-arms about any contradictions or mistranslations that are the result of some man's folly somewhere along the line. The theme of the Bible is evident, and all questions have been answered. The books are harmonious and all address the theme---God's Kingdom government by the Messiah.dianaiad wrote:I have read it, studied it, but most of all, I have prayed and asked God if it is His word and I have received an answer from Him, through the Holy Ghost, that satisfies me.onewithhim wrote: [Replying to post 389 by dianaiad]
Why don't you tell us why you think the Bible is God's Word.
It's very personal, very subjective....and not circular. It allows me to take the Bible as it is, and not have to reconcile all the possible contradictions/problems/mistranslations that may be in it. I don't have to look for archeological proof of things that cannot be proven archeologically, and I don't have to prove anything to anybody.
Basically, I went to the One Who inspired and gave revelation to the folks who wrote it. You know, like reading a scientific journal and, when one is confused by it, asking the writer to explain?
I'm not asking anybody else to believe me about this, mind you.
Very good. Might I say, too, that I have eliminated all versions as inferior to the one that I have come to see as the best...the New World Translation. It is absolutely demonized by probably the majority of clerics and scholars of this world, but wouldn't we expect that to be so in a world that Satan runs?brianbbs67 wrote:I have never asked Him if it is His word. But, could not an omnipotent being make sure His word got out? Or would He give it to us and see how we deal with it? Truly, IDK. But, I know He is real and the scriptures provide an amazing amount of revelation.dianaiad wrote:I have read it, studied it, but most of all, I have prayed and asked God if it is His word and I have received an answer from Him, through the Holy Ghost, that satisfies me.onewithhim wrote: [Replying to post 389 by dianaiad]
Why don't you tell us why you think the Bible is God's Word.
It's very personal, very subjective....and not circular. It allows me to take the Bible as it is, and not have to reconcile all the possible contradictions/problems/mistranslations that may be in it. I don't have to look for archeological proof of things that cannot be proven archeologically, and I don't have to prove anything to anybody.
Basically, I went to the One Who inspired and gave revelation to the folks who wrote it. You know, like reading a scientific journal and, when one is confused by it, asking the writer to explain?
I'm not asking anybody else to believe me about this, mind you.
We are made to questions things, so why wouldn't we? And if poor translations or deceptions exist, why wouldn't we eliminate them?
To me, its the whole seek ye first the kingdom of God, thing. You have to seek to find. You have to knock to be let in. You have to ask, for it to be given unto you. Etc.
No, demons are certainly not blessed by God to do anything. The demons are fooling people; they are playing with us! If a person believes that people have a conscious spirit that ascends from their body at death, they are then believing a lie. The person will not find the truth if he is persuaded by these "dead relatives" that they are alive somewhere, even though the Bible says plainly that "the dead know nothing at all." (Eccles.9:5) And to cast that off as nonsense, we are treading dangerous waters. Jesus himself accepted ALL of the Old Testament.Monta wrote: [Replying to post 383 by onewithhim]
"Sorry to disagree, but anyone who has seen their dead relatives are actually seeing demons who are masquerading as those people. You seem to think demons are either fictional or inactive. In reality they are very much involved with human-kind and get a great kick out of pretending to be someone's dead relative. :
Disagreeing is fine but would like to know where do you get these ideas that the dead relatives now seen alive in heavenly states are actually demons?
Many have seen dead relatives they did not know they ever existed. This only confirmed their faith in God in everlasting life. Are you saying demons are blessed by God to perform these goof deeds.
As for Eccl. - 'the dead know nothing' I'd stick to the New Testament. It was obvious from Jesus words that the Jews did not understand their scripture and if they did not we should presume that we would. It was written byy correspondences and representations we do not know much about.
Checkpoint wrote: [Replying to post 395 by onewithhim]
Quote:
Why not this?.......
Verse 4 spoke of the anointed co-rulers with Christ, and that they "came to life" before they started their rule. That is, God gave them everlasting life before the Millennial Reign.
Then verse 5 refers to those that would be resurrected to the Earth (the rest of the dead). I have already said that they would be gradually reaching perfection during those thousand years, because that is what the thousand years is for, mainly. So they wouldn't be given a clean bill of health, so to speak, until they become perfect and then are tested by Satan that last time, as mentioned in verses 7 and 8. The ones who do not go with Satan will be given the prize of eternal life. That is what it means when it says that they "did not come to life" until the end of the thousand years. The would come to life, or, be given eternal life, the real life, after their stand against Satan, after the Millennial Reign.
Disciples of Christ are encouraged to "safely treasure up for themselves a fine foundation for the future, to get a firm hold on the REAL life." (I Timothy 6:19) That is the "life" that Revelation 20:5 and 11-15 talks about. For us, the everlasting life that Jesus gave up his earthly life for.
No, not all that, because it is mostly other than what Revelation 20 tells us, and is thus adding to scripture.
Because what you say, what you claim, is a scenario not stated or implied in Revelation 20, the only scripture about the "one thousand years".Please tell me why my take on Revelation 20 is "other than" what you say Revelation 20 tells us.
Don't misunderstand me, here. I don't discount any scripture at first glance. Nor am I relying on only one. that would be short sighted and un wise. i seek God to draw nigh to Him, as He will then, draw me nigh. Our faith, is very much placed in faith itself. As, the more you learn, the more you realize, other than Christ, the rest is shaky at best and subject to much scrutiny. The caveat is , God has always offered salvation and cleansing.onewithhim wrote:Very good. Might I say, too, that I have eliminated all versions as inferior to the one that I have come to see as the best...the New World Translation. It is absolutely demonized by probably the majority of clerics and scholars of this world, but wouldn't we expect that to be so in a world that Satan runs?brianbbs67 wrote:I have never asked Him if it is His word. But, could not an omnipotent being make sure His word got out? Or would He give it to us and see how we deal with it? Truly, IDK. But, I know He is real and the scriptures provide an amazing amount of revelation.dianaiad wrote:I have read it, studied it, but most of all, I have prayed and asked God if it is His word and I have received an answer from Him, through the Holy Ghost, that satisfies me.onewithhim wrote: [Replying to post 389 by dianaiad]
Why don't you tell us why you think the Bible is God's Word.
It's very personal, very subjective....and not circular. It allows me to take the Bible as it is, and not have to reconcile all the possible contradictions/problems/mistranslations that may be in it. I don't have to look for archeological proof of things that cannot be proven archeologically, and I don't have to prove anything to anybody.
Basically, I went to the One Who inspired and gave revelation to the folks who wrote it. You know, like reading a scientific journal and, when one is confused by it, asking the writer to explain?
I'm not asking anybody else to believe me about this, mind you.
We are made to questions things, so why wouldn't we? And if poor translations or deceptions exist, why wouldn't we eliminate them?
To me, its the whole seek ye first the kingdom of God, thing. You have to seek to find. You have to knock to be let in. You have to ask, for it to be given unto you. Etc.
"We know we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one." (I John 5:19)
"Down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth." (Revelation 12:9)
I did my best to compare as many versions as I could get my hands on, and I agree with a scholar named Jason BeDuhn that the NWT is the best. He thinks the New American Bible is second-best. His book, Truth in Translation is excellent.
I see. And I don't discount any Scripture at first glance, either. I scrutinize verses thoroughly. I agree with you that "if poor translations or deceptions exist, why not eliminate them?" I do eliminate much that is contained in various versions, and go with the one that has put God's name back into the Scriptures where it has belonged from the beginning. Any version that has struck His name from the Scriptures is not worth the paper it's written on.brianbbs67 wrote:Don't misunderstand me, here. I don't discount any scripture at first glance. Nor am I relying on only one. that would be short sighted and un wise. i seek God to draw nigh to Him, as He will then, draw me nigh. Our faith, is very much placed in faith itself. As, the more you learn, the more you realize, other than Christ, the rest is shaky at best and subject to much scrutiny. The caveat is , God has always offered salvation and cleansing.onewithhim wrote:Very good. Might I say, too, that I have eliminated all versions as inferior to the one that I have come to see as the best...the New World Translation. It is absolutely demonized by probably the majority of clerics and scholars of this world, but wouldn't we expect that to be so in a world that Satan runs?brianbbs67 wrote:I have never asked Him if it is His word. But, could not an omnipotent being make sure His word got out? Or would He give it to us and see how we deal with it? Truly, IDK. But, I know He is real and the scriptures provide an amazing amount of revelation.dianaiad wrote:I have read it, studied it, but most of all, I have prayed and asked God if it is His word and I have received an answer from Him, through the Holy Ghost, that satisfies me.onewithhim wrote: [Replying to post 389 by dianaiad]
Why don't you tell us why you think the Bible is God's Word.
It's very personal, very subjective....and not circular. It allows me to take the Bible as it is, and not have to reconcile all the possible contradictions/problems/mistranslations that may be in it. I don't have to look for archeological proof of things that cannot be proven archeologically, and I don't have to prove anything to anybody.
Basically, I went to the One Who inspired and gave revelation to the folks who wrote it. You know, like reading a scientific journal and, when one is confused by it, asking the writer to explain?
I'm not asking anybody else to believe me about this, mind you.
We are made to questions things, so why wouldn't we? And if poor translations or deceptions exist, why wouldn't we eliminate them?
To me, its the whole seek ye first the kingdom of God, thing. You have to seek to find. You have to knock to be let in. You have to ask, for it to be given unto you. Etc.
"We know we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one." (I John 5:19)
"Down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth." (Revelation 12:9)
I did my best to compare as many versions as I could get my hands on, and I agree with a scholar named Jason BeDuhn that the NWT is the best. He thinks the New American Bible is second-best. His book, Truth in Translation is excellent.
"The resurrected ones".We are talking, after all is said and done, about the real life---the life that will never end.
The resurrected ones that find themselves alive during the Millennium will not have achieved ETERNAL LIFE until the end of the Millennium when Satan is let out to try and draw people after him for the last time, and those that resist him will THEN be given ETERNAL LIFE. They didn't have it before they were tested the final time.
