Jesus is God - walking in the Garden

[Wootah]

Genesis 3:8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the Lord God called to the man, “Where are you?”

Revelation 1:12 I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man,[d] dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest.

Now if you read on the seven lampstands are the seven churches.

Both images are pictures of God walking in His garden, tending to it. He found Adam and Eve with fault and removed them from the garden and in Revelation Jesus threatens to remove any lampstand that falters as well.

Revelation 2:5 If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place.

So in Genesis the Lord God is walking in the garden and in Revelation the Lord God is walking in the garden.

Is this proof that Jesus is the Lord God?

[TRANSPONDER]

This turns out to be a debate subject based on the 'prophecy' apologetic. That is, interpreting OT scripture as relating to Jesus. And just as with prophecy from Isaiah's virgin birth to Daniel's messiah 'cut off', I'd say the OT garden - illuminations are nothing to do with Jesus. One might argue that the writer of Revelation simply took the Edenaic illuminations (supposing there are any) and shifted the image to the later writing.

Of course, for those who believe the scripture is all true, they must consider whether the lamps of Genesis are anything to do with Jesus, but then, they will believe in Jesus already, so it must be about trying to use the passage to convince the doubter that 'prophecy' of Jesus is valid. I think you may have a problem with finding the lampstands in the garden of Eden. In fact Eden seems irrelevant The point is that the lamps represent a church.

But your intent was to try to make an Eschatological claim about Jesus serve as Proof of Jesus by trying to make it a kind of OT prophecy of Jesus. And on no grounds other than trying relate the lampstands to a garden. Sorry dude, if 'How can the messiah be David's son' doesn't do it, this effort won't.

[Wootah]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #2]

I think as literature the allusion is obvious. I feel you and I are at such a different wavelength. Maybe that is the issue no one takes the Bible seriously as art today?

Can you see the connection or not?

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #2]

I think as literature the allusion is obvious. I feel you and I are at such a different wavelength. Maybe that is the issue no one takes the Bible seriously as art today?

Can you see the connection or not?

Oh, I am well aware of the Bible as literature and also a fascinating window into the world of thought in possibly the 9th century B.C. But the debate on the forum is about religion and Christianity and whether the claims are true or not.

I do not see the connection of your lampstands as symbols of the Churches to the garden of Eden with God walking through it not knowing where Adam is hiding out. Not even as art or literature. Perhaps you would like to explain the connection.

Hint. Do not just put lampstands in the garden. I could just as easily connect Jesus dining with the pharisee with the feeding of 5,000 by transporting the Pharisee's laden table to Bethsaida where the 5,000 could help themselves. There would be no actual Bibletext -based connection just for my doing that.

No, I am looking for some textual clear connection between a bunch of lampstands and Adam's primeval garden. There's a Thanks in it for you if you can do it.

[TRANSPONDER]

I found no lampstands in Eden. Only as ritual objects in the OT. And not in the gospels either relating to Jesus nor the churches until we get to Revelation

Revelation 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lampstands is this: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.

Which are the 7 churches, I wonder? Rome, Antioch, Jerusalem, Alexandria, Corinth (was important, I recall), Ephesus. And submit you personal choice for No. 7 to go into the Christmas draw. Today, Rome, Greek orthodox, Coptic, Lutheran, LDS, JW I'll leave No 7 open.

Wiki According to Revelation 1:11, on the Greek island of Patmos, Jesus Christ instructs John of Patmos to: "Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven Churches: to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamum, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea."[1] The churches in this context refers to the community or local congregations of Christians living in each city.[2][3]

How boringly parochial. No Rome, Antioch or Alexandria and certainly not Jerusalem. However. others have other interpretations.

[Wootah]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #5]

Trees and lampstands. Zechariah 4.

Also some posts

https://www.jpost.com/opinion/the-tree- ... rah-452897
https://www.golds.com.au/p-6910-tree-of ... norah.aspx

It is a connection made by Jews and Christians and the Bible. Search the internet for info. For my purposes it validates my topic.

[TRANSPONDER]

Zechariah 4. 1 And the angel that talked with me came again, and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep.
2 And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:
3 And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.

Not good enough. In Lord of the Rings there are two trees each side of Durin's gates, but the trees are not the gates, nor the gates the trees, and it does not mean that there are rock gates in Lothlorien. Similarly, having two trees associated (in a vision relating to a rebuilt Temple) with a lampstand does not mean there were lampstands in Eden. You will have to provide better evidence (scriptural, not even factual) that supports that claim.

However, perhaps I was Too Hasty. Your point that lamps (churches) that fail, aside that those NT churches of Revelation are not what Jesus would judge, now, rather the global churches (denominations), is reasonable. In fact, they would be judged as individual persons, as the churches would be abolished ...Oh, pardon me, 'Fulfilled' and this makes sense, if one believes the eschatology. I don't; it should have happened 2,000 years ago when those '7 churches' were still relevant. The Eden reference was just the first example of judging failure, and no reason to drag trees into it at all.

[tam]

Peace to you Wootah,

Genesis 3:8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the Lord God called to the man, “Where are you?”

Revelation 1:12 I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man,[d] dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest.

Now if you read on the seven lampstands are the seven churches.

Both images are pictures of God walking in His garden, tending to it. He found Adam and Eve with fault and removed them from the garden and in Revelation Jesus threatens to remove any lampstand that falters as well.

Revelation 2:5 If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place.

So in Genesis the Lord God is walking in the garden and in Revelation the Lord God is walking in the garden.

Is this proof that Jesus is the Lord God?

No this is not proof of that.

Even IF the seven churches were the Garden of Eden (and I'm not sure that is correct):

1 - God gave all authority in heaven and on earth to His Son. So even if Christ is depicted as doing something that God did originally, that does not mean that Christ is God (YHWH). It just means that Christ is the HEIR, who has inherited all things and received all authority from His Father.

2 - Christ is the Tree of Life in the Garden of Eden. Not "the LORD God" walking around in the Garden.

viewtopic.php?p=1026273#p1026273


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[TRANSPONDER]

I'm no theologian nor Bible expert, so this is question rather than an argument. But isn't the tree of life an image of the law and gift of God? Life and immortality (though it isn't clear whether Adam was immortal or not). Jesus, even if actually God, is not that law or gift, but the means by which that which was lost can be regained. Or so it looks to me.

[tam]

Peace to you Transponder,

I'm no theologian nor Bible expert, so this is question rather than an argument.

I am also no theologian or bible expert, and thank you for the question.

But isn't the tree of life an image of the law and gift of God?

Is that something theologians and bible experts teach? I don't know how they come up with the law part of that. Certainly eternal life is a gift from God, but the one from whom we must eat in order to have eternal life is Christ Jaheshua, who is Himself the LIFE.

I apologize, Transponder, because the link I posted to is in a part of the forum you can't respond; I will re-post here.

On another forum, someone had asked if Christ was the Tree of Life from the Garden. I responded on that forum, but thought I would also share the truth as my Lord Jaheshua has taught me, in here as well.

Christ is indeed the Tree of Life from the Garden (of Eden). If Adam and Eve had reached out and eaten from the Tree of Life in the Garden, they would have lived forever, yes? Well, Christ tells us that we must eat from HIM to have eternal life and so, to live forever (see John 6:32–58)… and He also tells us that He is the Life (see John 14:6; 11:25):

“I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life.”

“I am the Resurrection and the Life.”

Some of those passages from John 6:

“I am the bread of life. Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

and,

“Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”



God did not give us two different things from which we may eat and live forever. God gave us His Son: Christ Jaheshua (Jaheshua meaning JAH saves/savior of JAH). Christ is the Truth, the Way, and the Life (and so also the Tree of Life). The spirit reminds me that my dear Lord is also described as having branches in Him:

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the keeper of the vineyard. He cuts off every branch IN ME that bears no fruit, and every branch that does bear fruit, He prunes it to make it even more fruitful.”


Christ is the Tree of Life.

**

You mentioned:

Life and immortality (though it isn't clear whether Adam was immortal or not). Jesus, even if actually God, is not that law or gift,

You are right that He (Christ Jaheshua) is not the law (the law is love), but He is the LIFE, and the One from whom we must eat in order to live forever.

but the means by which that which was lost can be regained.

He is that as well.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy