Does Hell Exist?

[Data]

The question for debate is does hell exist? If so, what does the Bible teach hell is?

[Difflugia]

Sorry to interrupt, but is the person really dead, if he can come to speak?

According to 1 Samuel 28, yes. "Now Samuel was dead," according to 1 Samuel 28:3. 2 Samuel 28:15 goes on to say, "And Samuel said to Saul, 'Why have you disturbed me, to bring me up?'"

I know a popular way to harmonize this is to claim that 28:15 isn't really talking about Samuel, but that would imply that the Bible isn't authoritative and doesn't really belong in TD&D.

Right. By the eternal soul doctrine everyone who is a spirit....is dead? So, God is dead?

You've got it backwards. Everyone that is dead is a spirit, but that doesn't necessarily imply that all spirits are dead. It's a common logic error.

I guess some worms are just plain....evil?

... and immortal!

According to the Bible (Mark 9:47 quoting Isaiah 66:24), God either has or will create some immortal worms. I don't know why you think immortality implies evil, though. Perhaps that's another logic error.

[onewithhim]

Right now our bodies and spirits are together. At death they separate. So it it true that the body is in the grave upon death. Where else should it be? The soul, however, is not there.

The bible usage if the word SOUL is quite different from mainstream church usage. A SOUL is just a living person or animal. At death the soul ceases to exist.

The words SPIRIT and SOUL are not synonymes.






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To learn more please go to other posts related to...

SOULS, SPIRIT and ... WHAT HAPPENS AT DEATH?

Paul wrote that he was going to be with Jesus. Stephan cried out to Jesus (not the grave) to receive his spirit. The Bible says Jesus gave up the spirit. David wrote that he would one day go to be with son and he didn’t mean sharing a grave. Samuel’s spirit rose. Revelation describes the spirits in Heaven, some wanting justice for their murder. Jesus promises to receive his disciples. The list goes on and on.

When you realize that the spirit means the breath of life, not something that continues on consciously, you can get an understanding of what's going on. Paul was going to be with Jesus in heaven, at the end of the system of things. Jesus said that all resurrections would happen in the last days. Stephen was not in the grave, and we wouldn't say he was at that point. Jesus gave up his breath of life, the thing that kept him alive. He was truly dead for three days. He didn't go anywhere, he was actually dead, and if you don't think so, his life as a human that he gave up won't mean a thing. David did mean that he would join his son in the grave. Yes, that is what he meant.

Samuel's "spirit" was a demon, not actually Samuel. The demons love to fool people. The spirits in heaven in Revelation are not literal, as Revelation is a book of symbols. For example, is the ferocious beast really literal that comes out of the sea? No, it stands for governments of men. You surely must learn more about the book of Revelation, a book of signs and symbols. Jesus will receive those disciples that have been anointed with holy spirit and will reign with him over the earth, and they are a "little flock" compared to the "other sheep" that will live on the earth. There are two groups of disciples, yet one flock. Your list is spurious.

[onewithhim]

The question for debate is does hell exist? If so, what does the Bible teach hell is?

Jesus taught that hell is a place where the fire is never quenched and the worms never die. He warned people to avoid that destiny.

Are you posting without reading other posts? Jesus taught no such thing as a literal fire where people are tortured forever. He was speaking an analogy, something not literal. He meant that those consigned to the lake of fire or Gehenna would totally evaporate---completely annihilated, existing no more. That is what something is when consigned to a literal fire---it is completely gone, forever. Jesus warned people to avoid being put into Gehenna or the lake of fire, because they would exist no more.

[Difflugia]

When you realize that the spirit means the breath of life, not something that continues on consciously, you can get an understanding of what's going on.

Keep in mind that this is TD&D where the Bible is authoritative. Your personal distinction between body, spirit, and soul, is in conflict with at least some biblical authors. Since Paul's potential out-of-body experience in 2 Corinthians requires a dualistic understanding of a conscious soul or spirit that is distinct from the body, it's enough to render your simplistic notion unbiblical.

Samuel's "spirit" was a demon, not actually Samuel.

Not according to the Bible.

[Difflugia]

Jesus taught no such thing as a literal fire where people are tortured forever.

Luke 16:23.

In addition, an angel teaches that in Revelation 14:11.

[2timothy316]

Right. By the eternal soul doctrine everyone who is a spirit....is dead? So, God is dead?

I don't think God is dead, nor that everyone who is spirit is dead.

Can anything actually die?

[1213]

Right. By the eternal soul doctrine everyone who is a spirit....is dead? So, God is dead?

I don't think God is dead, nor that everyone who is spirit is dead.

Can anything actually die?

I believe so. Bible tells that there is second death where soul and body are destroyed.

But for the cowardly, unbelieving, sinners, abominable, murder-ers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their part is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."
Rev. 21:8
…Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them. They were judged, each one according to his works. Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.
Rev. 20:12-15
Don't be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. Rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna [hell].
Matt. 10:28

[1213]

Sorry to interrupt, but is the person really dead, if he can come to speak?

According to 1 Samuel 28, yes. "Now Samuel was dead," according to 1 Samuel 28:3. 2 Samuel 28:15 goes on to say, "And Samuel said to Saul, 'Why have you disturbed me, to bring me up?'"
....

Yes, his body was dead, but not necessary his soul.

[JehovahsWitness]

Sorry to interrupt, but is the person really dead, if he can come to speak?

According to 1 Samuel 28, yes. "Now Samuel was dead," according to 1 Samuel 28:3. 2 Samuel 28:15 goes on to say, "And Samuel said to Saul, 'Why have you disturbed me, to bring me up?'"
....

Yes, his body was dead, but not necessary his soul.

Or it wasnt Samuel at all but a demon impersonating Samuel.

2 CORINTHIANS 11:14 - Berean Study Bible

And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.

JOHN 8:44

When he [The devil] lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

JW



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[Difflugia]

Yes, his body was dead, but not necessary his soul.

As far as I can tell, that's the orthodox position. Do you disagree?