How exactly did Jesus resurrection happen❓

[The Nice Centurion]

If a world religion claimed that 2000 years ago someone built a time machine, then people would fall over their own feet to constantly ask: "How excactly did this time machine work?"

But now we have in the bible a a main protagonist resurrect from being dead and no one, neither Christian nor Sceptic ever, bothers to ask:
"How exactly did Jesus resurrection happen?"

Marvel fans are known to intensively debate questions like:
"How exactly does Spidermans power of sticking to walls and ceilings work?"

But no one on earth gives a damn about how exactly worked "The Resurrection"!


My first question for debate: Why is that so


Now lets first see what "resurrection" is supposed to mean.

First: A resurrected being in the bible is not undead like Count Dracula as a Vampyre, who has no biological bodily functions anymore and is kept undead alive by magic alone.

A truly resurrected being is supposed to have regained live and full biological bodily functions out of the state of being truly dead.
And he is therefore not being kept alive by magic alone, though magic m i g h t have triggered his resurrection.

Everyone agrees that Jesus is supposed to have been "really dead" ! By current medical definition that does mean already brain dead.

This is the state anyone must reach to honestly resurrect.
For we have semi dead people waking up from clinical death all the time and no one is claiming miracle of resurrection for them.

But lets see what naturally happens after brain death:
"Decomposition (of the brain) often occurs within minutes after death, which is quicker than other body tissues, likely because the brain is about 80% water. Rotting starts in normal ambient temperature at about 3 days, and the brain is essentially vaporized within 5-10 years."

Said all that we can begin trying to find out how Jesus resurrection might have happened in detail.

Bible gives a hint by intensively implicating that Jesus resurrection was triggered by magic.

Bible explains that Jesus died sometime P.M. during first day, was dead the whole second day and resurrected on third day before daybreak.
(Lets say he was dead for somewhat 36 hours.)

Now, said all that; What is possible?

Magic, as the Great Joe Quesada stated when he destroyed the Spiderman comic series for the fans, must not be explained.

But what that magic did do can be researched.

Did magic stop Jesus brain and therefore his body too from decomposing, kept it in a somewhat timeless state and make him arise 36 hours later?

Did Jesus naturally decompose and magic made him re-decompose later to let him be able to better resurrect?

And then we have still the problem that Jesus died supposedly on the cross because fatal hurts and woundings to his body caused his heart to stop.

How therefore did his body compensate this fatal wounds, to still be able to resurrect?

I will stop here explaining, starting the debate with the second and main question:


How exactly did Jesus resurrection happen

[bluegreenearth]

Your critical thinking question seems to apply to the apologist's "explanatory power" criterion. Many apologists assert that the "resurrection hypothesis" has the most explanatory power compared to other proposed explanations, but I fail to understand how they make that determination given the fact that the resurrection process is never explained. How useful is it to explain a mystery by appealing to another mystery? Shouldn't the explanation with the most explanatory power refer to a process that can be demonstrated and understood?

[boatsnguitars]

If a world religion claimed that 2000 years ago someone built a time machine, then people would fall over their own feet to constantly ask: "How excactly did this time machine work?"

But now we have in the bible a a main protagonist resurrect from being dead and no one, neither Christian nor Sceptic ever, bothers to ask:
"How exactly did Jesus resurrection happen?"

Marvel fans are known to intensively debate questions like:
"How exactly does Spidermans power of sticking to walls and ceilings work?"

But no one on earth gives a damn about how exactly worked "The Resurrection"!


My first question for debate: Why is that so


Now lets first see what "resurrection" is supposed to mean.

First: A resurrected being in the bible is not undead like Count Dracula as a Vampyre, who has no biological bodily functions anymore and is kept undead alive by magic alone.

A truly resurrected being is supposed to have regained live and full biological bodily functions out of the state of being truly dead.
And he is therefore not being kept alive by magic alone, though magic m i g h t have triggered his resurrection.

Everyone agrees that Jesus is supposed to have been "really dead" ! By current medical definition that does mean already brain dead.

This is the state anyone must reach to honestly resurrect.
For we have semi dead people waking up from clinical death all the time and no one is claiming miracle of resurrection for them.

But lets see what naturally happens after brain death:
"Decomposition (of the brain) often occurs within minutes after death, which is quicker than other body tissues, likely because the brain is about 80% water. Rotting starts in normal ambient temperature at about 3 days, and the brain is essentially vaporized within 5-10 years."

Said all that we can begin trying to find out how Jesus resurrection might have happened in detail.

Bible gives a hint by intensively implicating that Jesus resurrection was triggered by magic.

Bible explains that Jesus died sometime P.M. during first day, was dead the whole second day and resurrected on third day before daybreak.
(Lets say he was dead for somewhat 36 hours.)

Now, said all that; What is possible?

Magic, as the Great Joe Quesada stated when he destroyed the Spiderman comic series for the fans, must not be explained.

But what that magic did do can be researched.

Did magic stop Jesus brain and therefore his body too from decomposing, kept it in a somewhat timeless state and make him arise 36 hours later?

Did Jesus naturally decompose and magic made him re-decompose later to let him be able to better resurrect?

And then we have still the problem that Jesus died supposedly on the cross because fatal hurts and woundings to his body caused his heart to stop.

How therefore did his body compensate this fatal wounds, to still be able to resurrect?

I will stop here explaining, starting the debate with the second and main question:


How exactly did Jesus resurrection happen

Paraphrasing from my Thesis on Mythology: if you try to understand Myth, you kill it as you would kill the animal you dissect in anatomy class. Studying myth is eye-opening when it comes to these things.

Religionists (those who are uncritical, gullible, credulous and brainwashed) understand this through many days and nights of trying to understand it, and then realize that none of it makes sense - so they decide it's a mystery far too removed from their primitive, sinful ken. They are taught to not question such things - or, invent reasons that pacify their curiosity (as long as it doesn't lead to heresy!).

You will get as many answers as there are Christians. None of them will be verifiable - because that's the whole point.

Also, you will get the true believers lurking and not commenting. They will wait for an answer that doesn't offend them to satisfy their curiosity. It will be something like "You don't have to understand Quantum Mechanics to know that it exists, so, we don't need to understand how Jesus was Resurrected, we just know that he was - now shut your pie hole and stop asking questions. Believe and repent!"

Note: I once called Jesus a zombie (he was, by most definitions), and a Christian told me "no, a zombie has damage to it's body, Jesus didn't." Apparently, this Christian decided to ignore the passage in the Bible that says he still had open wounds that fingers could be stuck into... So, don't expect any rational answer, or even knowledgeable one.
Note*: Also, this is where one realizes that Religion isn't an intellectual pursuit. Religion isn't about investigation and discovery. It's about feeling good. It's about finding peace where you're at in life. You come to justify your poverty, wealth, bigotry, love, etc - everything you do is put through the lens of religion and you are given a bully pulpit to declare you are right - always right. Or, some will say, "No, I find that religion makes me humble to know I'm often wrong!" - but that is exactly what someone would say if they needed to feel that to feel good. Religion is the easiest thing to do. It doesn't take any education - it takes forced ignorance. Even the "scholars" in Religion force themselves to be ignorant - because they only want to feel good about their beliefs and themselves. WLC, for example, became a Christian at 17 and has barely changed his views. It's remarkable that he knew everything at 17 that he has "proven" today - yet, many Christians disagree with him.

The Religious people here know what I'm talking about but they won't admit it. The former religious people know what I'm talking about and will confirm it. Religion gives one a false sense of knowledge. Questions like the OP are antithetical to that feeling, so they will avoid them.

[The Nice Centurion]

You gave your explanation why Christians avoid this question.
So can you also explain why non-Christians never come up with it?
Even Richard Carrier in "Why I dont buy the Resurrection Story" never touches this touchy question.

[TRANSPONDER]

I suppose it's 'what was the mechanism of resurrection?' rather than 'what were the actual circumstances?' In a way, consideration of this raises questions about resurrection itself. Like Gandalf, expired after his conflict with the Balrog, 'Felt Life in him again'. That's all that is needed. Dead people have been got going again, though the longer it is left, the less likely it is that the revival (which is what that is) is going to be possible.

That would account for why Jesus still bears the marks of crucifixion, which is not of a piece with the 'New incorruptible body' we hear about and sounds, a bit absurdly like Jesus being given a new perfect body, (the old one being carted away, dumped in a ditch or shipped to Galilee as the angel said) and God deciding 'You'd better have those stigmata on or nobody will think it's you'.

We are sing something different from either bodies long dead and gone climbing out of their graves at the last trump, perfect and in their prime, ready to die at Meggiddo or be judged and thrown into the fire (which makes you wonder why resurrecting them was necessary anyway as God already knows they won't be part of the Kingdom) ...no it makes no sense and never did, but just to say that Jesus' resurrection is nothing to do with the promise of resurrection at the last days or in the spirit (the body staying in the grave or in the form of dust in that jar in auntie's drinks cabinet) and it never was. Even Luke, in Acts by
inventing the appearance on the road to Damascus recognises that this was a spiritual vision and not the solid body walking as Cleophas met on the way to Emmaeus.

No, the more I go into the mechanism, the less any of it makes sense, and the more i am gobsmacked at the self delusion of this huge lie that the hugely intelligent and educated persons have refused even to see, preferring to dicker about doctrine and shibboleths and denouncing anyone that disagreed. One can excuse it in a time when doctors still prescribed mercury and leeches, but today, this just looks like a huge crazy delusion we-yall just have to get past.

But all that said, and probably with no more effect than it has ever had with the "I don't agree with you" faithbased crowd, there's the business of how it all went down, rather than how Jesus got up.

Apart from the question we had about why God did it where no-one even knew when Jesus rose, let alone saw it or he never even showed himself to the scoffers. Like the whole mission, it was all very secretive, not to say hole in the corner smuggled in and out. But apart from that, as i say, the mechanism does not have a resurrection as the the go - to explanation, but a Jesus that wasn't dead anyway, and (on the evidence) deliberately so.

Here's the thing. No conspiracy theory of mine, but looking at what the Bible actually tells us. Pilate was minded to let Jesus off, but the Sanhedrin forced his hand. Sadly, he ordered the crucifixion. Then Joseph, a rich Sanhedrin member (and Pharisee, you can bet) asks Pilate for the body. Alive. Pilate is happy to agree. But The Sanhedrin must think Jesus really died, or they'd report him to Caesar. Easy says Joseph. They'd already pulled the trick with Lazarus. They can do the same thing again. Give or take ill treatment (and the soldiers were in the plot, too) someone (who but Arimathea) offers this wine on a stick- no doubt as soon as the watching priests had left. Jesus conks out right away (1) and Joseph and help whip Jesus into the tomb still alive. Remember that a Pharisee and Sanhedrin man who still had to eat the Passover could not be in contact with a dead body. As soon as the place was properly dark (and before a guard was posted, if one even believes Matthew's tall tale) zip -nab... Jesus is gone.

Ok, why leave the tomb open? And why Mary Magdalene? Those are problematic questions and I can only make up explanations which I'd rather not do. But the evidence that I point to suggests a Jesus who didn't die. Not a resurrection, and I have already shown the contradictions that bespeak three separate and invented accounts and not a single reliable recounting of an event.

I no longer believe this conspiracy myself (it only looks like that accidentally) but it does fit what the Bible says better than an actual resurrection does. Cue faithbased denials, of course. I can only set out my stall and commend it to the house.

"My Lord speaker, Honourable members - the party opposite may not be able to run a whelk stall, but I can!"

(1) forget the invented spear thrust - none of the synoptics mention it and Luke tacitly denies it.

[JehovahsWitness]

HOW DID JESUS RESURRECTION HAPPEN ?

A similar question was asked by first century Christans as recorded in the bible. Below is the anwser provided by the Apostle Paul...

1 CORINTHIANS 15:35

Nevertheless, someone will say: “How are the dead to be raised up? Yes, with what sort of body are they coming?”+ 36 You unreasonable person! What you sow is not made alive unless first it dies.+ 37 And as for what you sow, you sow, not the body that will develop, but just a bare grain, whether of wheat or of some other kind of seed; 38 but God gives it a body just as it has pleased him, and gives to each of the seeds its own body. ... And there are heavenly bodies+ and earthly bodies;+ but the glory of the heavenly bodies is one sort, and that of the earthly bodies is a different sort. [...] 42 So it is with the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised up in incorruption.+ 43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised up in glory.+ It is sown in weakness; it is raised up in power.+ 44 It is sown a physical body; it is raised up a spiritual body.

So Paul compared the process of a resurrection to that of germination if a seed. If someone understands how the information contained in the DNA of a seed can result in a plant or a tree, then they can understand to a degree how all the information of a human can be transfered to a new body. Humans theorize about the transfer of consciousness and 'mind uploading' but the bible presents the transfert of a persons entire memory, consciousness and personality into a new body.

In biblical language this is referred to as the miracle of resurrection .



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http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 49#p967749

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

THE CONDITION OF THE DEAD , RESURRECTION and ... MIRACLES

[1213]

...
But now we have in the bible a a main protagonist resurrect from being dead and no one, neither Christian nor Sceptic ever, bothers to ask:
"How exactly did Jesus resurrection happen?"...

...Bible gives a hint by intensively implicating that Jesus resurrection was triggered by magic.
...

Maybe "t is not asked", because no one knows how it happened. Even if I would give an explanation, you would still not know it surely.

I would like to know, what do you think magic means?

[The Nice Centurion]

...
But now we have in the bible a a main protagonist resurrect from being dead and no one, neither Christian nor Sceptic ever, bothers to ask:
"How exactly did Jesus resurrection happen?"...

...Bible gives a hint by intensively implicating that Jesus resurrection was triggered by magic.
...

Maybe "t is not asked", because no one knows how it happened.

That is not a rational sentence.
No one knew how to defy gravity for reaching space and yet the question was commonly asked.

Even if I would give an explanation, you would still not know it surely.

Try me!

I would like to know, what do you think magic means?

To once again quote the Great Joe Quesada;
" Its Magic! We dont have to explain it! "

[The Nice Centurion]

1) The mechanics of Jesus Resurrection (often called the most important Happening in History) are absolutely unknown, never researched on and never asked about.

2) We have no actual witnesses for the resurrection.
This is seldom debated on, and if it is it gets answered with Humbug:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=28866

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=27092

3) Not even "the risen" Jesus in the gospels deigns to say to anyone that he rised from the dead.
Zero information from the Zombie himself.

Me seems we not only have an empty tomb at our hands, but also an empty story

[AgnosticBoy]

Your critical thinking question seems to apply to the apologist's "explanatory power" criterion. Many apologists assert that the "resurrection hypothesis" has the most explanatory power compared to other proposed explanations, but I fail to understand how they make that determination given the fact that the resurrection process is never explained. How useful is it to explain a mystery by appealing to another mystery? Shouldn't the explanation with the most explanatory power refer to a process that can be demonstrated and understood?

It's possible that something happens even if we don't fully understand how. Consciousness exist but scientists have not been able to explain how or why. There's also plenty of evidence for UFOs while scientists can not explain all of them.