We learn that Lazarus was already decomposing when Jesus asked him to step back to life. And he did. This is so absurd that one wonders how anyone could accept it. But many do.
Jesus went a step better and, having died, rose up. The effect is spoiled by silly details: he folded his funeral vestments up and left an angel in the sepulchre to explain his absence. Next he played hide and seek, disappearing somewhere and returning through walls. People still believe this all happened in the time when Rome was building roadways across Europe and North Africa, and doing so without a wand.
Why are these stories believed by intelligent people?
What extra part in them turns them from absurdity into truth?
Why believe in resurrections?
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Goose
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Re: Why believe in resurrections?
Post #2Well I can't speak for others and I don't know if I qualify as intelligent people but I believe Jesus rose from the dead because I believe there is good historical evidence for it.marco wrote:Why are these stories believed by intelligent people?
Things atheists say:
"Is it the case [that torturing and killing babies for fun is immoral]? Prove it." - Bust Nak
"For the record...I think the Gospels are intentional fiction and Jesus wasn't a real guy." – Difflugia
"Julius Caesar and Jesus both didn't exist." - brunumb
"...most atheists have no arguments or evidence to disprove God." – unknown soldier (a.k.a. the banned member Jagella)
"Is it the case [that torturing and killing babies for fun is immoral]? Prove it." - Bust Nak
"For the record...I think the Gospels are intentional fiction and Jesus wasn't a real guy." – Difflugia
"Julius Caesar and Jesus both didn't exist." - brunumb
"...most atheists have no arguments or evidence to disprove God." – unknown soldier (a.k.a. the banned member Jagella)
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JehovahsWitness
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Re: Why believe in resurrections?
Post #3Because they find the resurrection accounts convincing. If people found them absurd and unconvincing most "intelligent" people would, one can reasonably assume, not believe them.
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Tcg
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Re: Why believe in resurrections?
Post #4Death may be the reality that the greatest number of humans desire to deny. Provide a reason for humans to deny it, and many will accept it no matter how absurd the claim is.
Are there rational reasons to believe these tales of resurrection?
None at all, but the emotional comfort death denial brings overrides rationality in many cases, even among the intelligent.
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
Post #5
marco wrote:Why believe in resurrections?
Because, the resurrections have a purpose related to the believer! This comes from the inner workings of the mind known as self-preservation or the innate desire to stay alive, beyond the physical. However, there is much confusion associated to this concept. The most glaring one is: the heaven or hell doctrine…This doctrine and the doctrine of the resurrection cannot coexist, logically. Yet, they have the "commonality" of life after death (one way or another), but disagree on the specifics of each doctrine…
Also, the secular belief system, seems to suggest that life after death is just fancy…Hence, the disparity between this option (secularism) and life after death is quite obvious. Thus, the resurrections becomes more attractive to the majority of the populace, than secularism or a system of political or social philosophy that rejects all forms of religious faith and worship.
But, I will agree that the re-education of the millenniums have tilted the scales (temporarily). Yet, as human's age and begin to reach the end of their lives, it only makes sense that the desire to stay alive or live after death will kick-in…
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ttruscott
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Re: Why believe in resurrections?
Post #6A little gaslighting manipulation here; setting any believer up as already designated as unintelligent, believing absurdities...marco wrote: Why are these stories believed by intelligent people?
What extra part in them turns them from absurdity into truth?
PCE Theology as I see it...
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
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Tcg
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Re: Why believe in resurrections?
Post #7Actually, marco describes those who believe them as intelligent. He then asks about the stories, not the believers, as to what turns the stories from absurdities into truth for these intelligent believers.
Creating a strawman, as your post has, doesn't address the actual questions asked.
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
Re: Why believe in resurrections?
Post #8RESPONSE: Really? Exactly what "evidence" would that be. (I hope you aren't fall back up the fundamentalist claim "Because the bible says so."
Re: Why believe in resurrections?
Post #9You have misread the question then. There are highly intelligent people who accept the resurrection explanation. On the face of it when tales are told of a angel sitting in a tomb explaining why the corpse has walked off there is an obvious case for dismissal. It is therefore interesting to know WHY many do not dismiss the tale. I have NOT dismissed them as unintelligent: rather the opposite.ttruscott wrote:
A little gaslighting manipulation here; setting any believer up as already designated as unintelligent, believing absurdities...
Re: Why believe in resurrections?
Post #10Well you qualify as an intelligent person, singular rather than plural. Your suggestion that we have "historical evidence" for the resurrection is interesting. We have evidence for what might be a hoax, and given the choice of miracle or earthly hoax, one would opt for the earthly explanation. So the question is: why do people desert this possibility in favour of divine interference with the natural order of things?
