Jesus Christ has a God that he worships

[onewithhim]

Jesus said that we all must love Jehovah our God and worship only Him. He stated clearly that his Father was the only true God (John 17:3); he didn't say that we are the only true God. In many places in the Scriptures he calls the Father "my God."

"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3, KJV)

"Jesus saith unto her [Mary], Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father, but go to my brethren and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God. (John 20:17, KJV)

"At the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted: My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (Mark 15:34, KJV)

"Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall no more go out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is New Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name." (Revelation 3:12, KJV)

I think Jesus wants us to recognize that his Father, Jehovah, is God, and he is God's Son. (John 10:36) What do you make of this?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #7]

Final thought on #1: John 17:1-5 shows that Jesus is not equal to God because he ASKS God to give him glory. He is subordinate to his Father and relies on Him for everything.

(2) Jesus can pour out the HS because he has asked the Father to allow him to do that. The H.S. is from the Father and Jesus handles it. This was brought out by Martha at John 11:22: "And yet at present I know that as many things as you ASK God for, God will give you"

The Father sends the H.S. and Jesus disperses it: "The helper, the Holy Spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things..." (John 14:26)

Jesus said: "I will request the Father and he will give you another helper to be with you forever, the spirit of truth..." (John 14:26)


(3) Jesus was GIVEN the assignment to judge. "For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted also to the Son to have life in himself. And he has given him authority to do judging, because Son of man he is." (John 5:27) Jesus got the power to judge from God. He doesn't have to be God to judge.

More later...

[SiNcE_1985]

That would be great except that even after his return to an elevated position in heaven as a mighty spirit Jesus is STILL shown to be subordinate to the Father.

Which STILL makes him no less God than he was before the events of Phil 2:5-9.

Not to mention he STILL has those divine titles such as Alpha and Omega (Rev 1:8) and First and Last (Rev 2:8).

You and your organization will indeed give/show Jesus Christ his proper respect and label him properly.

Either do it now, or do it when you stand before him on judgement day.

I really don't care, but you are gonna do it.

I am saying this not to be harsh (even though I mean it)..I am just having fun with it , don't take it personal.

[JehovahsWitness]

That would be great except that even after his return to an elevated position in heaven as a mighty spirit Jesus is STILL shown to be subordinate to the Father.

Which STILL makes him no less God than he was before the events of Phil 2:5-9.

I do not know what this retort means. My point is, if Jesus was inferior power , rank and authority while a human, scripture indicates even after his return to heaven and elevation to a superior position, he STILL did not attain equality in rank, power, age or authority to Almight God The Father.

If you are not proposing the risen Christ is currently equal in rank, power, age or authority to Almight God The Father, then we have no issue.

[onewithhim]

I, for one, think that we can see clearly that Jesus is subordinate to Jehovah God, the Father. Jesus worships Him and indicates that everyone should do so.

That would all be a great point, if it weren't for the fact that we have Phil 2:5-9 which states that Jesus was in the form of God and thus temporary gave up his Godship, taking the form of a servant...thus, even though him and Yahweh were equals, Jesus willfully made himself subordinate to Yahweh and came on earth to identify with his creation in human form.

And part of that identity was playing the role of a son who learns, yearns, listens, loves, and carries out the will of his beloved Father.

And if that isn't good enough for you, we have quite a few scriptures of Jesus being worshipped by his followers (and even the angels).

And we all know that worship is reserved ONLY for God..and Jesus would not have welcomed worship if he was not to be worshipped...and instead of rebuking those who worshipped him, he accepted it...which would be blasphemy had he not been worthy of it.

Philippians 2:5-9 doesn't say that Jesus was God, it says he was in the FORM of God (a spirit being), and there is nothing to indicate that "he gave up his Godship." Nowhere does it say that Jesus and God were equals. Jesus is shown to be subordinate to God even after he returned to heaven.
"the head of Christ is God." (I Corinthians 11:3).

"Worship" has been addressed in this forum but apparently you missed it. It can mean to be venerated as someone in high authority and powerful, such as a judge or a king or governor, etc. It is not the same worship we give to God. So "worship" has different meanings, depending on the context. Jesus accepted peoples' respect.

[JehovahsWitness]

2. How can Jesus pour out the spirit of God on his disciples (John 20:22) if he isn't God?

Because such authority has been delegated to him.

MATTHEW 28:18

Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth

3. How can Jesus give the right to forgive sins (John 20:23) if he isn't God?

Because such authority has been delegated to him.

MATTHEW 28:18

Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth

[JehovahsWitness]

4. Why does Thomas call Jesus "my God" (John 20:28) and Jesus not correct him?

Because Jesus is Thomas' God. He's just not his AMLIGHTY God.

[JehovahsWitness]

6. How can Jesus take titles reserved for God (first and last, the Ancient of Days), if he isn't God?

Jesus identified as the "first and the last" from the DEAD and not in the absolute (ie "first and last" of everything).

The Ancient of Days is YHWH The Father not Jesus.

[JehovahsWitness]

7. How can Jesus receive worship, praise, honor, glory, and power with God, if he isn't God?

Because any "worship"*, praise, honor, glory, and power Jesus recieves is due to his position as the Son of God (inferior to Almighty God, the Father).

* in the bible the original term rendered worship in most bible can be rendered hommage (respectful sign of submission)

For more, please go to other posts related to...

PRAYER, GOD, and ....WORSHIP

[JehovahsWitness]

8. Why does Jesus double down when accused of blasphemy (John 10:36)?

Jesus didn't double down in the false accusation that he claimed equality with YHWH ALMIGHTY GOD the Father. He "doubles down" on his original claim...

JOHN 10:36b

"... I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?"

[SiNcE_1985]

I do not know what this retort means. My point is, if Jesus was inferior power , rank and authority while a human, scripture indicates even after his return to heaven and elevation to a superior position, he STILL did not attain equality in rank, power, age or authority to Almight God The Father.

If you are not proposing the risen Christ is currently equal in rank, power, age or authority to Almight God The Father, then we have no issue.

Here is what it means; the term "God" is to be understood as nature, or essence.

Yahweh (The Father) is "God" by the mere essence of his being.

Yahweh is God by nature.

Similarly, we are humans by nature and essence (thus the term human nature).

Do you follow so far?

Now, under the family structure, the husband has a higher rank/position than the wife (and the children).

However, does this higher rank/position make the husband more of a human than the wife?

No.

Does the husband's higher rank/position make him intrinsically better than the wife?

No.

The husband and the wife share the same nature/essence (human).

However, one is in a higher position under the family structure, than the other.

Now, take this same concept and apply it to the Trinity concept.

The Father and Son share the same essence/nature/divinity...however, the Son is in subordination to the Father...but that doesn't make the Son any less of God than the Father.

In the same way the wife's subordination to the husband doesn't make her any less of a human than the husband.

The Father and Son share the same nature/essence/divinity.

However, they have different roles as it pertains to how they deal with their creation.

Get it?