What is the Biblical view of hell?

[otseng]

The concept of Hell is one of the many unmarketable, embarrassingly unbelievable religious concepts that has been recently swept under the altar in the severely diluted quasi-belief system that passes for Christianity in certain circles.

In fact, I think this is why Christianity invented eternal punishment in hell. They started to realize that just plain dying wouldn't be compelling. So instead they invented the concept of "Everlasting Punishment" for those who refuse to comply.

Questions for debate:
What is the Biblical view of hell?
What concepts do we have of hell that are not in the Bible?

[AgnosticBoy]

otseng said:
I think we can all agree Sheol is not similar to the New Testament concept of hell, whether you believe in the afterlife or not.

People may agree on all or some of the following:
- All people go to Sheol
- There is no judgment of the dead
- There is no punishment of the dead
- Sheol can refer to a physical location (grave, pit), a spiritual location (where all the souls of the dead go to), or used in an idiom (doesn't literally refer to any physical or spiritual location, but is just an expression).
….

I agree with all on your list if we're only referring to the dead in Sheol. But I believe many Christians equate "Hell" with the Lake of Fire reference. Eventhough equating the two is wrong, but the concept of eternal punishment is still mentioned in the Bible in my opinion.

[William]

[Replying to post 70 by ]

AgnosticBoy: We can also look to other areas of the Bible that corroborates John's message regarding an "eternal fire".

Matthew: Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

William: This in itself does not mean it is a literal device.
Some folk need to see evidence of Justice being carried out and will settle for no less, so it is for those folk that the deception remains in the Lake of Fire, and those who want to will be rewarded with hearing and seeing The Devil and anyone else they judge should suffer torment forevermore, they will receive that as something they can literally experience.

What they imagine is "The Fathers Justice" is really just their own, which they themselves create in order to appease themselves and their sense of having been treated unjustly.

[otseng]

So you purpose the references to sheol is an "idiomatic expression" representing what?

It depends on the context. But, I'm not going to elaborate since it's not the main point of this thread.

I for one believe that SHEOL in the Hebrew bible is exactly the equivalent to the bible "New testament" reference to "hades" (hell) , namely the symbolic grave of mankind.

Sure, Sheol could be the same as Hades, but what about Gehenna, Tartarus and the lake of fire?

[otseng]

I agree with all on your list if we're only referring to the dead in Sheol. But I believe many Christians equate "Hell" with the Lake of Fire reference. Eventhough equating the two is wrong, but the concept of eternal punishment is still mentioned in the Bible in my opinion.

Yeah, we'll have to address the concept of eternal punishment, which seems to be the biggest stumbling block for non-Christians (and Christians).

So, this is a good time to start looking into the New Testament.

As mentioned before, there are multiple Greek words used in the NT that are translated as hell:
- Gehenna 12x
- Hades 11x
- Tartarus 1x

It could be possible all three of these words refer to the same thing. Or it could be they refer to three different things.

Taking at face value, Gehenna is a literal physical location. "Gehenna is a small valley in Jerusalem. In the Hebrew Bible, Gehenna was initially where some of the kings of Judah sacrificed their children by fire."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehenna

Jesus was the only person who used this term with one exception. It is mentioned one time in James, where the tongue is compared to it.

Jesus said Gehenna was a place people could be cast into.

[Luk 12:5 KJV] 5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Jesus said Gehenna was a place people would be destroyed.

[Mat 10:28 KJV] 28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Jesus said shouldn't say "thou fool" or else would be in danger.

[Mat 5:22 KJV] 22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

The only specific group of people referenced by Jesus about damnation and hell are the scribes and Pharisees.

[Mat 23:2 KJV] 2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
[Mat 23:33 KJV] 33 [Ye] serpents, [ye] generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Jesus speaks quite often about it's better to enter Gehenna maimed than having an offense.

[Mat 5:29-30 KJV] 29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast [it] from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not [that] thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast [it] from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not [that] thy whole body should be cast into hell.

[Mat 18:9 KJV] 9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast [it] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

[Mar 9:43, 45, 47 KJV] 43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: ... 45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: ... 47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

[otseng]

Hades is used 11 times.

Jesus never mentions Hades as a place where people are cast into or damned. Two times it is used in reference to the city Capernaum. One time about the gates of Hades not prevailing. And one about the rich man and Lazarus in Hades.

[Mat 11:23 KJV] 23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

[Mat 16:18 KJV] 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

[Luk 10:15 KJV] 15 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.

[Luk 16:23 KJV] 23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Acts refers to a soul not left in Hades.

[Act 2:27, 31 KJV] 27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. ... 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

Hades is mentioned in 1 Corinthians saying Hades has no more victory.

[1Co 15:55 KJV] 55 O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

Four times Hades is refered to in Revelation.

[Rev 1:18 KJV] 18 I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

[Rev 6:8 KJV] 8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

[Rev 20:13-14 KJV] 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Tartarus is used once in 2 Peter about angels being cast into it.

[2Pe 2:4 KJV] 4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

[otseng]

As far as I can tell, the above is all the references that uses the word hell in the NT. Can anybody else add where else in the Bible is the word hell used?

[Divine Insight]

Yeah, we'll have to address the concept of eternal punishment, which seems to be the biggest stumbling block for non-Christians (and Christians).

I'm not convinced that the concept of hell is the biggest stumbling block associated with Christianity. When I was a Christian studying the Bible trying to understand what this God wanted from people the concept of hell was the furthest thing from my mind.

In fact, I came the conclusion that this God could not possibly be true early on in the New Testament. And to the best of my knowledge there's no mention of hell there. In fact, as I had mentioned earlier it's my understanding that the concept of hell was basically a concept introduced in the Gospels and attributed to the teaching of Jesus.

While it is true that a Creator God who would cast the objects of his very own creation into a state of eternal torment is an insane idea, as far as I'm concerned that's hardly needed to reject the Biblical stories of God. That's just perhaps one of the more insane aspects of the religion. But even without it, that hardly justifies the rest of the Bible.

Also it would seem to me that a Christian would be the last person who would want to reject a concept that Christ himself introduced. Aren't Christians supposed to accept Jesus' word as the TRUTH?

It seems odd that in an effort to try to salvage their religion they need to take a position that appears to be quite opposite to what Jesus is said to have taught.

[William]

@

Divine Insight: Also it would seem to me that a Christian would be the last person who would want to reject a concept that Christ himself introduced. Aren't Christians supposed to accept Jesus' word as the TRUTH?

It seems odd that in an effort to try to salvage their religion they need to take a position that appears to be quite opposite to what Jesus is said to have taught.

William: The thing your argument is forgetting to include, is also something which many Christians forget to include, and the ramifications of that cannot be overstated.
The secrets of the Metaphysical Universe (which is where hell is supposedly situated) are not something which are known to those who are not close to Jesus.
Christians are somewhat distanced from the inner circle mainly because they have opted for the Bible to be the last say on the matter of what they will follow. So they follow a book which vaguely and sparingly has words in it which are attributed to Jesus.
Your argument is with the Bible, rather than with the person of Jesus...as far as I can tell, although perhaps you see no difference?

The main reason I see for Jesus making hell known as a place which can be experienced as real by the individual, is because this is an aspect of the Metaphysical Universe to which far too many souls were ending up, because their beliefs put them in such hellish circumstances once they departed the Physical Universe and entered into the Metaphysical Universe. The MU has that about it. It responds to the individuals belief systems immediately. @
Jesus planted another seed of thought into the beliefs of human cultures - one which has the believer going to a nice place and experiencing that as real.
That is a step in the best direction of eventually fixing the problem human souls experience upon leaving one universe and going to the next.

[JehovahsWitness]

Sure, Sheol could be the same as Hades, but what about Gehenna, Tartarus and the lake of fire?

Gehenna, Tartarus and the lake of fire are not words describing the condition of the dead, (thus the near criminal negligence on the part of many of translating them all with the same word .."hell"). Gehenna, Tartarus and the lake of fire are words that describe the life, prospects for life or lack thereof, of various groups .

In short the dead are in a state of complete non-existence, unconscious and incapable of experiencing any thought, feelings pain or pleasure. The Christian bible develops the question "Is there any hope for the dead? Will God bring any of the dead back to life? Are some already judged as being worthy only of everlasting death?"




JEHOVAH'S WITNESS





RELATED POSTS

What is Gehenna?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 876#373876

What is THE LAKE OF FIRE?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 866#337866

Why is there so much confusion as to the condition of the dead?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 052#844052

Go to other posts related to...

HELL, GEHENNA, and ... THE LAKE OF FIRE

[onewithhim]

The concept of Hell is one of the many unmarketable, embarrassingly unbelievable religious concepts that has been recently swept under the altar in the severely diluted quasi-belief system that passes for Christianity in certain circles.

In fact, I think this is why Christianity invented eternal punishment in hell. They started to realize that just plain dying wouldn't be compelling. So instead they invented the concept of "Everlasting Punishment" for those who refuse to comply.

Questions for debate:
What is the Biblical view of hell?
What concepts do we have of hell that are not in the Bible?

Both of the quotes you provided refer to Christianity as the source for ideas of hell. Unquestionably, Christianity has developed an idea of hell as a place where some humans will live eternally in fiery suffering.


Your question is important to see if the Bible supports this view of hell. The answer, however, will not change the fact that Christianity has developed an idea of hell as a dwelling where some humans will suffer eternally.



Tcg

Yes, but is this Christianity that you mention the TRUE Christianity, or is it the "false sons of the Kingdom" that Christ spoke about in one of his parables, that would almost choke out the TRUE sons of the Kingdom? (Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43) He spoke of this false Christianity as "the sons of the wicked one" (Matt.13:38). So it is concievable that false Christians have spun this horrible tale of people suffering in a fire forever.

Jesus never taught it. His references to fire are spoken as METAPHOR.....something that is not real to help explain the likeness of something that is of substance. "Fire" represented a complete destruction of something, to where it didn't exist any longer.