How does Jesus's "sacrifice" make any kind of sens

[rikuoamero]

This is for the theists, of course.

Just how does it make sense? What is the debt? Why is there a debt, and how is it to be repaid?

According to standard Christian theology, there was a tree with some fruit that was forbidden to the first humans. The fruit was eaten anyway, and some punishments were handed out.
Surely that should have been the end of it right? But no, according to Christians, someone just HAD to die. Which is strange, considering that nothing of what Adam and Eve did had anything to do with death; the loss of their supposed immortality was not done by them directly, but as a part of the punishment handed out by their god.
Even so...even if we ignore that...how does Jesus dying 'solve' that, or mitigate that?

Would it have worked if Jesus had lain down in a bathtub and slit his wrists? Or hung himself, entirely of his own volition?
I'm guessing no...I'm guessing that what just HAD to be done was for some corrupt priests (were they corrupt? Apparently they were only obeying their god's laws!) called for his execution and had him nailed to a piece of wood, with Jesus not resisting in any way.
So what does that accomplish? What does that show? From what I can see, it only shows that (some) people can kill, are ready and willing to do so, in the name of their god even if (apparently) this "isn't" what God wants (but it is!)

Now, I'm going to guess I'm going to get answers that ignore most, if not all, of what I said. I will be told that the only acceptable sacrifice was Jesus, since he's a sinless, perfect human. Notice that I didn't comment on that part.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 90 by JehovahsWitness]

So, is it correct to say, in the 1880's - since other Churches' beliefs had been made obsolete by technology, philosophy, science and so on, it was necessary discard false beliefs and to create a new church, so that something vaguely like Christianity could continue?

[Clownboat]

If your ancestor committed a crime, you should be punished for it.

Are humans being "punished" for Adam's sin?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 280#381280

After all, if your grandfather got the flu, you get sick, right? If your father broke his ankel, you suffer the pain, right?

Why do Adam's children suffer if Adam committed the fault?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 765#873765

Willium, it seems to depend on where in the Bible you choose to look for your answer.

Deuteronomy 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

- or -

Isaiah 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 92 by Clownboat]

Well, I must say, that "it depends on where you choose to look," or, to paraphrase, it is inconsistent, is a characteristic of most lies.

That's how we KNOW they are lies. They don't line up with themselves or observables.

It has been a while, and I am grateful for you reminding me of it: I thought, when I was very young, that if you could tweak the Bible into saying anything, based on no context, it couldn't be the truth.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 90 by JehovahsWitness]

So, is it correct to say, in the 1880's - since other Churches' beliefs had been made obsolete by technology, philosophy, science and so on, it was necessary discard false beliefs and to create a new church, so that something vaguely like Christianity could continue?

Well I'm not in a position to speak for other Churches most of the older churches seem to have kept going well enough, but they will have to speak for themselves. True Christianity is never obsolete and truth is always relevant.


JW

[Willum]

[Replying to post 94 by JehovahsWitness]

Except you needed a new Christianity, a new Religion basically, has the same names.
So it seems to me, the only need for JW is because previous Christianities were preaching stuff like drowning witches, cleanliness was a sin, and all manner of Biblical things, that modern society said, "Hey, that's not true!" and so you needed a new religion to wisely ignore those things, isn't that why JW was necessitated?

[JehovahsWitness]

So God has allowed mankind the thousands of years necessary to prove that without him, humans cannot and will never solve even their most basic problems let alone find a cure for the ultimate disease... death.

These problems are still going on. If Jesus was supposed to have been the remedy for sin and death, why do people still die, why do they still sin?

When will obedient humans enjoy the full benefits of the ransom?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 010#854010

Why has it taken thousand of years to settle the issues raised in Eden?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 803#886803

What is the 1000 year rule of Christ and how will mankind benefit from it?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 204#909204

JW

[Willum]

These problems are still going on. If Jesus was supposed to have been the remedy for sin and death, why do people still die, why do they still sin?

When will obedient humans enjoy the full benefits of the ransom?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 010#854010

Practically, the answer is never. Your quote not-withstanding. Jesus should have returned within the lives of his disciples, but now every death is another point of evidence that there is no return.

Why has it taken thousand of years to settle the issues raised in Eden?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 803#886803

If something doesn't exist, it can't settle any issues. This answer is far more consistent than that reply. The longer you wait, the longer nothing happens.

What is the 1000 year rule of Christ and how will mankind benefit from it?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 204#909204

JW

How does that explain anything? You realize that you are preaching to "the wicked," right? This Jesus of yours is coming to kill quite a few people on this site, and not a one of us believe we are wicked. None of us act wickedly, or do wicked things, yet you have condemned us...

[JehovahsWitness]

These problems are still going on. If Jesus was supposed to have been the remedy for sin and death, why do people still die, why do they still sin?

When will obedient humans enjoy the full benefits of the ransom?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 010#854010

... Your quote not-withstanding. Jesus should have returned within the lives of his disciples....

Which generation did Jesus indicate would witness his return?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 219#752219

What did Jesus promise some standing with him as recorded in Mat 16:27?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 624#836624

Did Jesus indicate that his first century disciples would see him returned in Kingdom power? (Mark 9:1; Matthew 16: 27, 28; Luke 9: 27)
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 172#752172

[Willum]

[Replying to post 98 by JehovahsWitness]

Your responses seems to address the issue by changing or pretending the issue doesn’t exist. That does not address the issue. I can simply thwart by stating I do not agree with your segue.
So here we are, your segue is non-sequitur, so you have not made your point. Please respond appropriately.