No one will ever know

Spaceman13 · Post by **Spaceman13** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:30 am

Does anyone have "proof" that God/Satan exists? If there is evidence I'd sure like to hear it. This being a debate site we should have proof but I can't think of any.

Shermana · Post by **Shermana** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:03 pm

Go ahead and create one.

Just for your knowledge, I asked which Euks you thought could create the Ozone layer at 10x the UV.

And your first reply basically is another dodge out of the question, most blatantly.

Ragna · Post by **Ragna** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:09 pm

Shermana wrote:Go ahead and create one.

I might tomorrow, but I won't be here most of the day. Just in case, there's also already one made by McCulloch where you can provide your evidence for a Young Earth and where AkiThePirate provided his for an old one.

Shermana wrote:Just for your knowledge, I asked which Euks you thought could create the Ozone layer at 10x the UV.

And your first reply basically is another dodge out of the question, most blatantly.

It was not. My answer was the softest it could since your question implied a, let's say misinformation, in biology, which I explained.

Eukaryotes come after prokaryotes. You ask which eukaryotes created something for prokaryotes to live with... error in chronology. Eukaryotes exist only after prokaryotes have settled.

My real answer was that there are possible living beings which can withstand conditions harder than 10x UV (the extremophile example).

Shermana · Post by **Shermana** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:15 pm

"My real answer was that there are possible living beings which can withstand conditions harder than 10x UV"

Nevermind that last thing before edit. I retract what I said about "thank you for agreeing with me". I thought I saw "aren't". I thought you were agreeing with me. I clearly disagree that ANYTHING can exist in such.

Anyways, please provide proof that these things can exist in a UVx10 environment please or retract your claim.

Seriously, show proof of these Extromophiles or whatever that can actually exist without an Ozone layer.

Ragna · Post by **Ragna** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:19 pm

Shermana wrote:[...]As you can see, nothing can exist without an Ozone layer already in place.

? I don't follow you; life can probably originate without an Ozone layer, and organisms might develop in it.

Shermana wrote: The Firmament in Heaven was created before the Sun.

Thank you

I never indicated that they could exist without the Sun, and even if they could, life on Earth originated after the Sun, so these organisms we're referring to, too.

Shermana wrote:Anyways, please provide proof that these things can exist in a UVx10 environment please or retract your claim.

Read and inform yourself what extremophiles are, as I put already one article on them. This will do.

Shermana wrote:Seriously, show proof of Euks or whatever that can actually exist without an Ozone layer.

... you don't seem to read what I write or link.

Shermana · Post by **Shermana** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:20 pm

Yeah I edited after I reread, I read too quickly and misread you the first time. See edit.

Please provide proof of these Extremophiles that can live in 10x the UV specifically.

I'll give you a helpful link too.

http://www.nhm.ac.uk/research-curation/ ... k-extreme/

adammfr · Post by **adammfr** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:22 pm

First of all, I'd like to introduce myself. Hello debaters.

Most things people mistake for proof of God's existence are merely things that cannot be explained.

If everyone on Earth believed that everything on Earth was made by a giant ghost cat because it was a story that had always been taught to credulous children, and they had believed that for centuries, then they would attribute everything they didn't understand to the giant ghost cat. They would never stop to consider whether or not the giant ghost cat had any business existing in the first place.

The only way we could ever know for sure that the giant cat existed would be if it came down to Earth to talk with us. Anything else, no matter how unexplainable, would not be able to be attributed to the cat. Even if the cat does exist, why does that mean he created everything? Inversely, just because everything exists, why does it mean the cat created it?

In my opinion, the alleged proof of God consists of special pleading and a "God of the gaps" mindset.

They will say that anything orderly needs a creator. The special pleading comes in when they say that there had to be a first creator, something so complex that it would not possibly be able to just always exist. They say that God doesn't need a creator, but the universe does, even though the universe is far simpler than God.

Conversely, the theory of evolution states that things began very simply and become complex over time.

Both atheists and theists must believe an absurdity:

Atheism: A single cell did not need a creator.
Theism: An infinitely complex super-entity did not need a creator.

I believe the lesser of two improbabilities, because, we know that one of them must have happened.

Shermana · Post by **Shermana** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:24 pm

"Most things people mistake for proof of God's existence are merely things that cannot be explained."

Like the Ozone layer? How do you think it came to be since everything before it would have been cooked at 10x the Radiation?

That would be called proof of Genesis.

Ragna · Post by **Ragna** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:24 pm

Shermana wrote:Yeah I edited after I reread, I read too quickly and misread you the first time. See edit.

Please provide proof of these Extremophiles that can live in 10x the UV specifically.

I'll give you a helpful link too.

http://www.nhm.ac.uk/research-curation/ ... k-extreme/

I have claimed they have survived the vacuum reportedly (I'm sure it has to be in Wikipedia, and also serious radiation), but the 10x UV scenario is not something I'm dealing with specifically, it's included.

Anyway sorry but I have to leave for today, goodnight.

adammfr · Post by **adammfr** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:37 pm

Like the Ozone layer? How do you think it came to be since everything before it would have been cooked at 10x the Radiation?

That would be called proof of Genesis.

This is a classic case of Goditit. Perhaps someday there will be an answer to satisfy your curiousity.

Read my post over again. I talked extensively in it about how people take stuff that they can't explain and use God to fill in the gaps.

Why is there so much stuff were people say, "oh look, this verifies the bible," when there are so many times that people say, "Oh, you took that out of context," or, "that was a figure of speech." It would seem that the vaguest lines are interpreted as the bible's scientific truth, but direct contradictions are just ignored.

This is just my opinion, but no, I don't accept not knowing how the first cells survived as proof of God's existence. It doesn't deal with God, it just deals with not knowing something.

Just because the book "1984" predicted that there will be cameras everywhere isn't proof that Orwell used a time machine to go back in time so he could write the book and be correct. Besides, there are far too many things that didn't come true in Orwelle's book, so it would be wishful thinking.

Shermana · Post by **Shermana** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:39 pm

"This is a classic case of Goditit. Perhaps someday there will be an answer to satisfy your curiousity. "

You're right, it is a classic case of "God did it" but not in your sarcastic sense, because the idea that the Ozone layer can exist with a Sun in place first is impossible.

Now if you leave it up to "one day we'll figure it out" you're not exactly much better than the whole "God of the gaps" thing.

Feel free to also look at those links about the Higgs Boson too.