Who created God

[Donray]

Who created God?

The intelligent design folks point to the fact that the universe is perfect universe and therefore must have been created by God.

I also understand that God is perfect.

Given these facts, who or what created God?

[TheAtheist]

Who Created God?
This assumes that God exists.
Therefore it is illogical to think that the nonexistent was created.

[Filthy Tugboat]

Who Created God?
This assumes that God exists.
Therefore it is illogical to think that the nonexistent was created.

The OP was created assuming the argument from perfection. Which means that this thread works under the assumption that God exists.

[100%atheist]

Give me a problem, philosophical, personal or theological and I will give you the answer from the Bible.

Is human cloning ethical?
Do aliens believe in Jesus?
What is the correct interpretation of Heisenberg principle?

Biblical quotes please.

[100%atheist]

Einstein was alone on many of his theorems for many years.

Wouldn't you mind to name a few of Einsteins theorems on which he was alone please?

Personally, I don't know Einstein proposed theorems. And also, he was the one who was skeptical about some of his colleagues findings, so it's rather Pauli than Einstein who was alone.

Regarding the first part of your post concerning math books. The major difference between math books and the bible is that math (and scientific books in general) books do not need interpretation and they can be put to a test. The bible and other religious books require interpretation and they can't be put to a test.

I don't need to argue with a teacher that 2+2 is not 5, but I can simply demonstrate it. What can you demonstrate from the Bible other than what can be found in non-religious books? Can you demonstrate that a person can live for some 800 years or so and that the entire biosphere of the Earth can fit into a one bloated boat? Can you demonstrate that the universe was created by a conscious being? Etc., etc., etc.

.... HOWEVER, if you are still involved in QA of jet engines, I will probably lie to you that I agree with everything you say and I'd better avoid further discussions for the sake of personal and public safety.

[Clownboat]

Who created God?

Which one? There are millions of created gods.

Now if you ask who created 'Bible-God', I can prove from the Bible that He cannot be created, and by pointing to His creation (everything you see) I can prove He created it all.

And a Muslim can prove from the Qu'ran that Allah created it all.

Yes, in that case they are referring to Bible-God, the God of Abraham, ... then they drift off like the big-bang theory and the triune-gods of trinity.

Just as we have to be careful about what math-book we teach out kids out of, there is only one proven Book on Gods Creation, the Bible evidenced with everything you see, including yourself. You my friend are the greatest proof of God, even forgetting you were created, you think you ARE God.

Actually, you don't need to be especially careful about selecting a math book. All math books in all countries follow the similar math notation and approach and, that's even more important, teach that 2 + 2 is always 4, no matter what you believe.

And tell me if that is not comforting? It is so nice to know that everyone, the entire world agrees on mathematics. We do have 'absolute truth' then don't we?

I machined jet engine parts for many years, and was an inspector for a while, and it was nice to get a part from a fellow machinist that has + or - .0002 tolerance, and after me checking it, to have it fall into those tolerances. Especially I appreciate it when I was flying to the Philippines on that 16 hour non stop trip across the Pacific.

But I can also tell you that we always push those absolutes, especially in machining.

"Why it's only out by .0001, come on and pass the inspection already! Stamp the damn thing!" .. and so on. And you know what? I could. It seems so small of a fraction, only one tenths of a thousanths of an inch, I could just put that it is within the tolerance and stamp it. But no, I KNOW we cannot deviate from the tolerance. (my hair diameter thickness is .0032 inches, and I have thinning hair) so what is a .0001 lie, really? You can't see it, only with very special equipment under controlled temperatures. Do you know how hot that part will get once inside that engine? Heat expands, and yet I would not let even that little pass.

Look at it this way, there are an estimated 10,000 books written every day in this world. How many of those are of God of the Bible?
Find me ONE that teaches about God aside of theism, or that God is a Deity, just ONE. I don't care about the new ones coming out, find me one book EVER written (other than the Bible) that does not name the Bible-God a Deity?

Well my friend, I have not found one yet, so that means that the Bible is the sole authority on our Creator God.

Would you send your kids to a school where they interpret the math books completely different than what it teaches?

The Book specifically says 2+2=4, and yet the teacher uses some doctrine his friend made up that says 2+2= 6. His next years teacher teaches yet another theory/doctrine where 2+2=13. Won't you step up and say; "Stop! we cannot interpret the absolutes of mathematics any way we please. It doesn't work that way!"

What if after about 1,800 years of this, where people would have written thousands upon thousands of books interpreting math thousands of ways; 1+1=1,895 and other crazy numbers and interpretations with them. You would Try to at least point to the original book, the only one that survived with very little variation, the real importance of sticking with the absolute truth regarding mathematics? What if by now, even dictionaries and Encyclopedias explain it wrong?

What would you do my friend?
Yell: "Listen people, you are getting all these wrong answers and all these problems in everything you make, which in turn effects your very lives because you have deviated from the absolute truth on mathematics! Go back to the original Book, re learn the basics and you will SEE that your problems will be solved!"

But you know what, they will ignore you as if you were crazy or something. They will tell you: "Oh, that is your interpretation, and this is ours. What makes 'your interpretation' better than the thousands we have and had over the 1,800 years?"

See what I mean?

Theism does not include our God of the Bible, and neither is our God a Deity who reveals His will through some divinations. Our God is NOT plural, nor three different persons in one. Just like in math, 1+1+1=3 and NOT 1. But try to teach that to the indoctrinated minds.

As to your statement that the Bible is self-evident due to circular logic adopted by many Christians, I am glad that you admit it. Also, if we change "the Bible" word in your post with "the Qu'ran" word, then we will get what we should expect to hear from a Muslim. I think that you should put your religions to one true test that will certainly should establish which book is the most proven and right book in the entire universe.

I have, and will continue to do so as long as God gives me breath. Just as an inspector I did not allow .0001 of an inch get by me, I sure as hell will not let bald faced lies about who our Creator is get past me. 1+1+1= NOT 1, period.

Give me a problem, philosophical, personal or theological and I will give you the answer from the Bible.

Now remember that just as in mathematics, when we get into physics measuring radiation particles, wave lenghts of light and such, it gets very difficult to understand, but we can know if the person is correct or not, if he always gets the same answer, even if he's the only one who understands it for now. Einstein was alone on many of his theorems for many years.

So by all means, ask me anything and I will try my best to answer it through Gods Word. I'm sure if you don't, then by all means McCulloch will catch me of I'm making it up or not.

Then, well ask those of different persuasion to answer the same questions and see if it is an accepted one or not. They must also show how and from what source they derived at their conclusion. Fair enough?

Math is based on evidence, so your analogy does not hold.

See if you can answer this for me through your god's word. What happend to the Mayan's souls that lived around 200 AD? They had never heard of Jesus or the Bible.

[Malachi-Zede-El]

Who created God?

The intelligent design folks point to the fact that the universe is perfect universe and therefore must have been created by God.

I also understand that God is perfect.

Given these facts, who or what created God?

The Biblical and Koranic concept of God was created in the hearts and minds of their Authors and as these Authors became Authentic , Their documents became Authentic . And within the pages of their document called Scriptures , God was Born !!!

[arian]

Give me a problem, philosophical, personal or theological and I will give you the answer from the Bible.

Is human cloning ethical?

Sure, if it's possible, God made it possible:

Mark 9:23
23 Jesus said to him, "If you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes."
NKJV

that is if it's for the right reasons;

1 Cor 10:23-24
All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify. 24 Let no one seek his own, but each one the other's well-being.
NKJV

God has done cloning in the Bible, now pay attention:

John 1:1-2
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God.
NKJV

There was the Word who was with God, right? He was one with God, and God beget Him as Adam begot Eve. And then:

John 1:14
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
NKJV

We know the Word is Gods Only Begotten Son, .. right? So how did He become flesh?

CLONING

Matt 1:20-21
20 But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name JESUS, for He will save His people from their sins."
NKJV

God sent His Son (whom God named the 'Word') in a DNA form into the egg of a virgin Jewish girl named Mary, and told her that; you shall call His name JESUS

The son of God who was begotten (as Eve was begotten of Adam) was cloned in the egg of Mary and was born into the physical world. The only difference here is that God turned His Spiritual Son into a physical DNA, there was no Word in Heaven any more, for "the Word became flesh, and dwelt amongst us".

This is what man is hoping to achieve, to clone himself, NOT by taking a DNA strand from his flesh and make another identical looking human, a twin, but to do what God did to His Son, .. man wants to turn himself, everything including his memory, into that clone of his, so he may cheat death.

Sorry, but no-can-do. God allows man to clone the flesh, but not the soul, the real you. The memories are stored in the physical brain, and who knows, one day man might have been able to duplicate that too, but for what purpose?

Once you programmed the memory of one man into another, all that would create is a bunch of confusion!

"Say what, I was an athlete? But I hate sports. I love playing and creating video games, other then sports. Now what the heck am I to do? I have all these memories of all the things I did, and I hate them all! NOooo... I had sex with Joes grandma? Help! Get these memories out of my head, they conflict with everything I believe in!"

Do aliens believe in Jesus?

Eph 2:12-13
12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
NKJV

I know a lot of aliens who profess Jesus as Lord. Hungarians, Germans, Mexicans and a whole bunch of others too. Jesus did come only for His People the Jews, but He had a plan to ingraft all of us aliens into believing in Jesus too. Are you one of them?

(If you were referring to the sci-fi aliens, you'll have to talk to the Sci-Fi king himself, Stephen Hawkings.)

What is the correct interpretation of Heisenberg principle?

Biblical quotes please. [/

It is impossible to determine accurately both the position and the direction and speed of a particle at the same instant.

So the correct interpretation of the Heinsenberg principle is that 'all things are possible with God' who has created 'both the position and the direction and speed of a particle at the same instant'. Once you walk in the 'Spirit of your mind with God' it is He who will control both the speed and the direction of the particles we are made of, just as the cells in our body are controlled by our brain.

John 3:8
8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
NKJV

One way in which Heisenberg originally argued for the uncertainty principle is by using an imaginary microscope as a measuring device. He imagines an experimenter trying to measure the position and momentum of an electron by shooting a photon at it.

You see, it all starts in our brains, God reaching out to us, showing His mighty Power at all levels, from sub-atomic to the endless space of our universe. I hope I have answered your questions according to Gods Word?

Now let me ask you something; "If we were to invent a 'time machine', which direction would you go to get to ... let's say, a store you bought milk from, oh, about a week ago?"

your choices can include, but not limited to:
Up
Down
Back
Forward
Left
Right
in
out

You may use whatever source you wish, the Bible included (actually preferred).

Thanks

Odon

[arian]

Math is based on evidence, so your analogy does not hold.

Really?

Let's say I home-schooled my kids, and started to teach them math like so:

1,2,3,4,6,5,7,8,9 and 10.
1+1=2
1+2=3
2+3=6
3+3=5
3+4=7

and so on. Now what would happen if my kids went back to school and their first math test came back incorrect on those few (bolded) places?

The order has remained, only what they 'named' the result was different.

The teacher would say, "NO you stupid kid, for the tenth time 2+3=5, and NOT 6!"

Both my kids, AND the teacher can show their 'evidence', yet both are wrong in the others eyes.

How far do you think my kids could go with this concept? Forever, all the calculations in trigonometry, in calculous and on up could be completed with this concept, and their answers would remain 'consistent'. Maybe different then their teachers, probably a lot different (I'm tired and I haven't worked out the implications) but as you can see, evidence can be altered, truth can be twisted.

THIS IS WHY GOD HAS NO NAME, so we won't confuse each other by confusing Him with the theistic gods. It is a good example of what I showed you in numbers.

See if you can answer this for me through your god's word. What happend to the Mayan's souls that lived around 200 AD? They had never heard of Jesus or the Bible.

It's all about God.
Jesus came to make things clear to us and get us closer to Our Creator. But look at all the ones calling themselves Christian, and believe in the Trinity gods, and all kinds of idols.

God calls everyone, and the Mayans worship of idols proves that God called on them too, just like the rest of us Gentiles. They accepted lesser gods, just as the whole world today who have rejected the message of Jesus. Only, for us, rejecting such clear message, the punishment will be far greater.

God does not judge like man, he judges the hearts of men. If a Mayan could make idols to worship, they could have worshiped the True God and not those idols. But all those that became atheists (not worshipped all those gods) and sought after the Living God will be rewarded even more then those of us who heard Jesus preaching.

So Beware! We better have a good excuse not believing, or for worshipping other gods and deities.

Heb 6:4-6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
NKJV

Odon

[Clownboat]

Math is based on evidence, so your analogy does not hold.

Really?

Let's say I home-schooled my kids, and started to teach them math like so:

1,2,3,4,6,5,7,8,9 and 10.
1+1=2
1+2=3
2+3=6
3+3=5
3+4=7

and so on. Now what would happen if my kids went back to school and their first math test came back incorrect on those few (bolded) places?

The order has remained, only what they 'named' the result was different.

The teacher would say, "NO you stupid kid, for the tenth time 2+3=5, and NOT 6!"

Both my kids, AND the teacher can show their 'evidence', yet both are wrong in the others eyes.

How far do you think my kids could go with this concept? Forever, all the calculations in trigonometry, in calculous and on up could be completed with this concept, and their answers would remain 'consistent'. Maybe different then their teachers, probably a lot different (I'm tired and I haven't worked out the implications) but as you can see, evidence can be altered, truth can be twisted.

THIS IS WHY GOD HAS NO NAME, so we won't confuse each other by confusing Him with the theistic gods. It is a good example of what I showed you in numbers.

2 of something + 3 of something will always equal the same thing (which happens to be 5). I can supply evidence to show you that I can prove this statement. Because you choose to call a 5 a 6 does not change the fact that 2 + 3 will always equal the same thing. Semantics does not cause math to stop working all of a sudden.

See if you can answer this for me through your god's word. What happend to the Mayan's souls that lived around 200 AD? They had never heard of Jesus or the Bible.

It's all about God.
Jesus came to make things clear to us and get us closer to Our Creator. But look at all the ones calling themselves Christian, and believe in the Trinity gods, and all kinds of idols.

God calls everyone, and the Mayans worship of idols proves that God called on them too, just like the rest of us Gentiles. They accepted lesser gods, just as the whole world today who have rejected the message of Jesus. Only, for us, rejecting such clear message, the punishment will be far greater.

God does not judge like man, he judges the hearts of men. If a Mayan could make idols to worship, they could have worshiped the True God and not those idols. But all those that became atheists (not worshipped all those gods) and sought after the Living God will be rewarded even more then those of us who heard Jesus preaching.

So Beware! We better have a good excuse not believing, or for worshipping other gods and deities.

Heb 6:4-6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
NKJV

Odon

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, so that whoever shall believe in him will have everlasting life.

Sorry, but the Mayans don't qualify.

[100%atheist]

Give me a problem, philosophical, personal or theological and I will give you the answer from the Bible.

Is human cloning ethical?

Sure, if it's possible, God made it possible:

Mark 9:23
23 Jesus said to him, "If you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes."
NKJV

Do aliens believe in Jesus?

(If you were referring to the sci-fi aliens, you'll have to talk to the Sci-Fi king himself, Stephen Hawkings.)

What is the correct interpretation of Heisenberg principle?

Biblical quotes please. [/

It is impossible to determine accurately both the position and the direction and speed of a particle at the same instant.

So the correct interpretation of the Heinsenberg principle is that 'all things are possible with God' who has created 'both the position and the direction and speed of a particle at the same instant'. Once you walk in the 'Spirit of your mind with God' it is He who will control both the speed and the direction of the particles we are made of, just as the cells in our body are controlled by our brain.

John 3:8
8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
NKJV

Nice!

If we accept your approach of how the Bible can be used to answer ANY question, then I can safely claim that:
Give me a problem, philosophical, personal or theological and I will give you the answer from Harry Potter.