Are the Jews Israel?

[christian1488]

Are the Jews Israel?

Simple question,any answers?

[Malachi-Zede-El]

http://www.israelect.com/ChurchOfTrueIs ... omise.html - Heirs of the Promise

Is this a joke?
I said peer reviewed top tier academic scholarship, like from a member in good standing with the American Academy of Religion or the Society for Biblical Literature (who's annual conference I attended tonight and will again on sunday).
This is fringe amatuerish drivel you've given me.
Do you know the difference?

who's annual conference I attended tonight and will again on sunday < So your going to a place where people get pay to tell you what you want to hear . And that makes your school of though right . Don't think so , Only show your believe what your told also . Nomore Noless . The joke is you think you can only believe what your told

[dianaiad]

Mc < says > We are debating in an apologetics forum, [ therefore there is no a priori presumption that the Bible record is true ]

What make Jewish Book ( True ) ?

me < say> what (are...) {you// trying *** to : <say>} with your (symbols and syntax)?

It means you have to put on the big shoes and hat to be funny .

No, it means that this is another bit of irony, given your opinion of people who go into another culture and insist upon changing/destroying/eliminating it. You don't like them.

Yet here you are, entering into this culture ("Debating Christianity and Religion Forum" )and absolutely insist upon criticizing and 'destroying' it, declaring that if you don't write grammatical English, then it is OUR fault, and we have to change our language to suit you. Now you refuse to use the very clear and traditional methods of quoting so that people can clearly understand what you are doing.

Since this forum is web-based, everybody who posts here has access to the same tools. For instance, the 'quote' function is right there on a button, between 'strike' and 'code', just above the font buttons.

In fact, the quote function is automatic; you have to deliberately CHANGE things in order to do it your way...you know, destroying tradition and culture.

All you have to do, if you don't want to wait to the end of a post to respond, is put the word 'quote' between [] brackets. When you want to end the quote, insert a forward slash after the first bracket, like this: [/ (plus "quote")]

Just see how it's coded in the 'reply' box when you decide to write one, and do what the people in the culture you are invading do it.

That is, after all, what you want people to do when they enter YOUR culture, right?

[Malachi-Zede-El]

Mc < says > We are debating in an apologetics forum, [ therefore there is no a priori presumption that the Bible record is true ]

What make Jewish Book ( True ) ?

me < say> what (are...) {you// trying *** to : <say>} with your (symbols and syntax)?

It means you have to put on the big shoes and hat to be funny .

No, it means that this is another bit of irony, given your opinion of people who go into another culture and insist upon changing/destroying/eliminating it. You don't like them.

Yet here you are, entering into this culture ("Debating Christianity and Religion Forum" )and absolutely insist upon criticizing and 'destroying' it, declaring that if you don't write grammatical English, then it is OUR fault, and we have to change our language to suit you. Now you refuse to use the very clear and traditional methods of quoting so that people can clearly understand what you are doing.

Since this forum is web-based, everybody who posts here has access to the same tools. For instance, the 'quote' function is right there on a button, between 'strike' and 'code', just above the font buttons.

In fact, the quote function is automatic; you have to deliberately CHANGE things in order to do it your way...you know, destroying tradition and culture.

All you have to do, if you don't want to wait to the end of a post to respond, is put the word 'quote' between [] brackets. When you want to end the quote, insert a forward slash after the first bracket, like this: [/ (plus "quote")]

Just see how it's coded in the 'reply' box when you decide to write one, and do what the people in the culture you are invading do it.

That is, after all, what you want people to do when they enter YOUR culture, right?

My my your 62 + you should relax sound like your [ Upset ] about something , Maybe you should go to your english teacher and get a pill for that , And cup of tea to relax yourself .

[dianaiad]

My my your 62 + you should relax sound like your [ Upset ] about something , Maybe you should go to your english teacher and get a pill for that , And cup of tea to relax yourself .

I see that you took my advice, though, however you feel about the person giving it to you. Good job.

[Malachi-Zede-El]

Don't most tribes that are conquered basically intermarry and dissipate? Is this not true the world over, througout history?

I'm Irish, Scottish and German. But my family names on both sides are Norman, which also suggest there was an English phase. My wife is irish and italian and 1/8 jewish. Whatever, we're american; never met any of them. I have friends that are irish-cherokee, korean-brazilion, and russian(jewish)-irish, and just a generation ago, without any conquestin' going on, exceptin' maybe in the boudoir. A good friend is black and so is is wife, but they both have white in them from way back, English captians and planters.

Aren't these ancient Israel tribes lost and irrelevant now, through intermarriage (or enslavement-rape)? Weren't they lost within a few generations, in situ? Isn't their story the same as that of countless others? Why would they have migrated and maintained an identity? Whither and whence this fascination? This strikes me as an eccentric hooby, much like reading the so-called book of revelation as a predictor of future or current events.

The Assyrians butt-kicked and absorbed oodles of peeps. As did everyone else. Buh-bye tribes. End of story. I would think. And no amatuer pseudo-scholarship by individual eccentrics speculating outside their area of expertise changes that. Brits are no more lost isrealite tribes than than the ancient greeks were aryan.
Sheer crackpotism.
A good way to waste a few minutes.
But a life?

How are tribes irrelevant now?

Matthew 15:24:But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

How could Jesus be sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel if they did not exist anymore through intermarriage?

Luke 19:10:For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

How could Jesus seek and save a people,if they did not exist anymore?

The tribes migrated and lost their identity...

You make some very good point .

[Malachi-Zede-El]

Adam; Eve; Cain, son of Adam and Eve; Abel, son of Adam and Eve; Enoch, son of Jared; Lamech, son of Methuselah; Seth, son of Adam and Eve; Enos, son of Seth; Cainan, son of Enos; Mahalaleel, son of Cainan; Jared, son of Ahaleel; Methuselah, son of Enoch; Noah, son of Lamech; Ham, son of Noah; Shem, son of Noah; Japheth, son of Noah; Elam, son of Shem; Asshur, son of Shem; Arphaxad, son of Shem; Lud, son of Shem; Aram, son of Shem; Salah, son of Arphaxad; Eber, son of Salah; Peleg, son of Eber; Reu, son of Peleg; Serug, son of Reu; Nahow, son of Serug; Terah, son of Nahor;

We are debating in an apologetics forum, therefore there is no a priori presumption that the Bible record is true. All of these people are from the Jewish creation myths and have no basis in historical fact. So, in that sense, they are Jewish in the same sense that Ask and Embla are Norse. Of course, if you read the myths as history, then these people were the forerunners of the Jews and other Semitic and non-Semitic peoples.

What then was the religion of these hypothetical people? Presumably, they knew and worshiped the One God, same as the Jews, but they did not have the same covenant. They would have had the seven laws of Noah.

Now, according to the same sources, who is Israel? Of course, Israel is the people descended from Jacob, son of Isaac, son of Abraham. According to tradition he had twelve sons and one daughter by his four wives and concubines:

[row]by Leah [col]Reuben (1); Simeon (2); Levi (3); Judah (4); Issachar (9); Zebulun (10); Dinah (D)[row]by Rachel [col]Joseph (11); Benjamin (12)[row]by Bilhah (Rachel's servant) [col]Dan (5); Naphtali (6)[row]by Zilpah (Leah's servant) [col]Gad (7); Asher (8)

Joseph's two sons Mannasseh and Ephraim were counted as patriarchs of one tribe each.

When the United Monarchy of Israel split, the northern portion became known as the Kingdom of Israel and the southern portion became known as the Kingdom of Judah (consisting of the Tribe of Judah, the Tribe of Simeon, the Tribe of Benjamin and some of the people of the Tribe of Levi). The Kingdom of Israel was conquered by the Assyrian Empire in about 720 BCE. They disappeared from Biblical and all other historical accounts after the kingdom was destroyed, and became known as the ten lost tribes. There has been much speculation but little factual evidence regarding their eventual fate.

For the post-exilic period, beginning in the 5th century BCE, the remnants of the Israelites came to be referred to as Jews, named for the kingdom of Judah.

What do you say happened to the Israel group who were taken into Assyrian Captivity?
Did they disappear off the face of the earth?
They didn't return to their homeland....

They are not the Jews of today....


Assyrian Captivities

In the ninth year of Hoshea, the king of Assyria took Samaria, and carried Israel away into Assyria, and placed them in Halah and in Habor by the river of Gozan, and in the cities of the Medes. (2 Kings 17:6)

The first archaeological evidence to establish a chronological link in the contacts between Assyria and Israel are found on inscriptions on the side of a limestone stele found at Nimrud, known as the "Black Obelisk." The stone was inscribed with the records of Shalmaneser the third and an illustration of the Israelite king Jehu bringing tribute to the Assyrian king. An inscription above the illustration says:

"This is Jehu (Iaua), the son of Khumri (Omri)."

Omri in Hebrew begins with the consonant, "Agin," formerly called "Gayin" which was pronounced with a guttural "H," that is "Gh" or "Kh." The Israelites would have naturally pronounced Omri as "Ghomri" which became "Khumri" in Assyrian.

As this inscription was executed nearly a century before the captivity of Israel, we know now the reason secular historians found no mention of the exiled Israelites in ancient records. It was simply because the Assyrians who took the Israelites captive did not call them by that name. Historians are now aware of the fact that the Gamira were the same people, who, about 30 years later, during the reign of Esarhaddon, king of Assyria, again were called Gimira. (Notice the slight changes in spelling).

We find in another and later Assyrian tablet that in the second year of the reign of this same king, which would be about 679 B.C., the Gimira, under a leader named "Teuspa," sought freedom by moving north; but the Assyrain army pursued and defeated them in the upper Euphrates district. Nevertheless, they reported a large number of the lsraelites escaped to the shores of the Black Sea. The Greeks also recorded the same activity including an invasion of Sardis, the capital of Lydia, in 645 B.C. In their records they refer to the Gamira as "Kimmerioi," which we translate into English as "Cimmerian."

About 600 B.C. the Lydians drove the Gamira, or Cimmerians, out of Asia Minor, where they settled in the Carpathian regions west of the Black Sea. We find them called in the second book of Esdras, the people of Ar-Sareth (2 Esdras 13:40-44).

We now also know what happened to the larger body of Gamira or Israelites, that did not escape the Assyrians. They formed an alliance with Esarhaddon, the king, when he came under attack of the Medes and the Persians.

This treaty allowed the Israelites to establish colonies in Sacasene in the north and Bactria in the east. With absolutely no help from the Israelites, Assyria fell in 612 B.C. Soon the Israelites themselves came under attack by the Medes.

Now those that had settled in Sacasene moved north through the Dariel Pass into the steppe regions of south Russia. There they became known by the Greek name, "Scythians."

The Israelites that had settled in Bactria were forced north and east, and in the records of the Persians they were called Massagetae and Sakka.

Archeology has solved two of the greatest archeological problems: First, what happened to the hundreds of thousands of Israelites who disappeared south of the Caucasus; and second, what was the origin of the Cimmerians and the mysterious nomadic tribes, known as Scythians, who suddenly appeared north of the Caucasus - both at the same time in history. They were one and the same people. They were Israelites. Now may I point out what the Bible has to say concerning these same people:

"For lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth" (Amos 9:9).

Our history books pick up the story at this point, recording the westward migrations of the Scythians, as they came into collision with the Cimmerians, who had earlier settled west of the Black Sea. Their kinship lost over the centuries, the ensuing battles forced the Cimmerians west and north to become the Celts, Gauls, and Cimbri. By the end of the fourth century B.C., the Scythians had established themselves as the great and prosperous kingdom of Scythia.

Later, the Sarmatians, these were a mixed, non- Israelitish people of Iranian origin. They in turn drove the Scythians northwest to the shores of the Baltic Sea. At this time in history, we find the Romans introduced the name "Germans" in place of the name Scythians, in order not to confuse the Scythians with the Sarmatians, who now occupied Scythia. Germanus, being the Latin name for "genuine," indicates the Germans were the genuine Scythians.

During this time the Celts were expanding in all directions from central Europe. Some of the Celts invaded Italy and sacked Rome in 390 B.C. Another group moved back into Asia Minor, in 280 B.C., and the Greeks called them "Galatians," as they did another group of Celts that had settled in Gaul, or modern France. This also indicates that Paul's letters to the Galatians were written to his kinsmen Israelites, or at least descendants of the earlier Galatians.

Some of the Celts moved into Spain and became known as Iberes, the Gaelic name for "Hebrews." Others poured into Britain to form the bedrock of the British race. Later, the Iberes moved into Ireland as Scots, and later into Northern Britain to establish the nation of Scotland.

Your history books also record the Germanic tribes breaking up into many divisions - the Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Danes, and Vikings, to name just a few. Other Germanic tribes later poured into the lands vacated by the Celts and established the Gothic nations of the Vandals, Lombards, Franks, Burgundians, and others.

The so-called "lost tribes of Israel" really, were never lost. They only lost their identity as they migrated westward over the centuries from the land of their captivity.

(End of interview with Capt)

Pastor Emry: And there you have it, my friends. Mr. Capt has given us an answer to our question: "What happened to the millions of Israelites who were dispersed out of old Canaanland 7 centuries before Christ, and who never returned?

They migrated onto the continent of Europe and were the ancestors of the white, European race. And in answering our one question about Israel's disappearance, Mr. Capt has given us the key to several other mysteries of world history.

Mr. Capt has revealed to us why it was these people of Europe who became the great nations, and who were blessed by God above all other nations, not only with fertile land and abundance from the seas, but with arts, science, literature, inventions. and discovery.

God bestowed upon that one race almost every invention and discovery that has improved man's condition and lot upon the earth. Certainly. God made these offspring of Abraham a blessing to all the families of the earth.

Mr. Capt has answered another question which is often asked of ministers, but seldom answered:

"Why, of all the people of the earth, has it been only this white Caucasian race, these so-called 'Gentiles,' who have claimed Jesus Christ as their God, and who have taken the Bible as the foundation of their religion?"

The answer:

the truth which is avoided and even denied by the clergy is simple. These people are the Israelites, the children of Abraham, God's chosen people. And that explains why every true gospel preacher and missionary for Jesus Christ for over 1,900 years has been of this one race. They are dispersed Israel, fulfilling Bible prophecy even while blindness in part is upon them, blindness of their own identity as the Chosen of God.

Biblical promises have become historical facts. In the Old Testament God had promised to regather divorced Israel unto Himself:

My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them. For thus saith the Lord God; Behold I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out (Ezekiel 34:6,11).

Jesus made it plain He was the instrument of Israel's return to God:

For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost (Luke 19:10).

But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matthew 15:24).

The word "lost" appears 13 times in the New Testament in relation to Israel. The Greek word means "put away and punished." So Jesus was saying in Matthew 15:24, "I am not sent but unto the put away and punished house of Israel." In Matthew 10:6, Jesus instructed His disciples to go to "the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

In Luke 1, Zacharias the priest, who was John the Baptist's father, said that Jesus came to redeem His people and . . . To perform the mercy promised to our [Israel] fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; The oath which he sware to our father Abraham (Luke 1:72, 73).

Paul, an Israelite, wrote to Israelites in the dispersion in Galatia:

When the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, to redeem them that were under the law... (Galatians 4:4, 5).

Only the Israelites had been under the law. Romans 15 and verse 8 says:

"...Jesus Christ was a minister for the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers." (Romans 15:8).

These promises, as we have seen, were of great national development, a great increase in numbers, blessings of the earth and of the sea, that God would be their God, and they would be His people.

After the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, His disciples carried the good news to dispersed Israel in Europe, beginning what we know as the Christian era. For 1500 more years Israel remained in Europe, continuing to grow in numbers as God had promised their Fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.





ISRAEL IN EUROPE BEFORE CHRIST



ISRAEL-GAMERA-GIMERA-KHUMRI-KIMMEROII-CIMMERIANS-SCYTHIANS

http://www.israelect.com/ChurchOfTrueIs ... omise.html - HEIRS OF THE PROMISE


The 1905 JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA, Vol. 21, page 249 reads: "If the Ten Tribes have disappeared, they must exist UNDER A DIFFERENT NAME." Again, they must be a people NOT called "Jews."

I see you do Resaerch

[micatala]

Mc < says > We are debating in an apologetics forum, [ therefore there is no a priori presumption that the Bible record is true ]

What make Jewish Book ( True ) ?

me < say> what (are...) {you// trying *** to : <say>} with your (symbols and syntax)?

It means you have to put on the big shoes and hat to be funny .

No, it means that this is another bit of irony, given your opinion of people who go into another culture and insist upon changing/destroying/eliminating it. You don't like them.

Yet here you are, entering into this culture ("Debating Christianity and Religion Forum" )and absolutely insist upon criticizing and 'destroying' it, declaring that if you don't write grammatical English, then it is OUR fault, and we have to change our language to suit you. Now you refuse to use the very clear and traditional methods of quoting so that people can clearly understand what you are doing.

Since this forum is web-based, everybody who posts here has access to the same tools. For instance, the 'quote' function is right there on a button, between 'strike' and 'code', just above the font buttons.

In fact, the quote function is automatic; you have to deliberately CHANGE things in order to do it your way...you know, destroying tradition and culture.

All you have to do, if you don't want to wait to the end of a post to respond, is put the word 'quote' between [] brackets. When you want to end the quote, insert a forward slash after the first bracket, like this: [/ (plus "quote")]

Just see how it's coded in the 'reply' box when you decide to write one, and do what the people in the culture you are invading do it.

That is, after all, what you want people to do when they enter YOUR culture, right?

My my your 62 you should relax sound like your [ Upset ] about something , Maybe you should go to your english teacher and get a pill for that , And cup of tea to relax yourself .

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This is quite uncivil and entirely uncalled for. If you continue to post in such a fashion you will be put on probation and perhaps banned.



Please review our Rules.

______________

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[Malachi-Zede-El]

Mc < says > We are debating in an apologetics forum, [ therefore there is no a priori presumption that the Bible record is true ]

What make Jewish Book ( True ) ?

me < say> what (are...) {you// trying *** to : <say>} with your (symbols and syntax)?

It means you have to put on the big shoes and hat to be funny .

No, it means that this is another bit of irony, given your opinion of people who go into another culture and insist upon changing/destroying/eliminating it. You don't like them.

Yet here you are, entering into this culture ("Debating Christianity and Religion Forum" )and absolutely insist upon criticizing and 'destroying' it, declaring that if you don't write grammatical English, then it is OUR fault, and we have to change our language to suit you. Now you refuse to use the very clear and traditional methods of quoting so that people can clearly understand what you are doing.

Since this forum is web-based, everybody who posts here has access to the same tools. For instance, the 'quote' function is right there on a button, between 'strike' and 'code', just above the font buttons.

In fact, the quote function is automatic; you have to deliberately CHANGE things in order to do it your way...you know, destroying tradition and culture.

All you have to do, if you don't want to wait to the end of a post to respond, is put the word 'quote' between [] brackets. When you want to end the quote, insert a forward slash after the first bracket, like this: [/ (plus "quote")]

Just see how it's coded in the 'reply' box when you decide to write one, and do what the people in the culture you are invading do it.

That is, after all, what you want people to do when they enter YOUR culture, right?

My my your 62 you should relax sound like your [ Upset ] about something , Maybe you should go to your english teacher and get a pill for that , And cup of tea to relax yourself .

Moderator Warning


This is quite uncivil and entirely uncalled for. If you continue to post in such a fashion you will be put on probation and perhaps banned.



Please review our Rules.

______________

Moderator warnings count as a strike against users. Additional violations in the future may warrant a final warning. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

What (quite uncivil and entirely uncalled for ) she feel she can say whatever she feel like either because of her age or because she bows the jews here when she should stay in her place ,

[dianaiad]

What (quite uncivil and entirely uncalled for ) she feel she can say whatever she feel like either because of her age or because she bows the jews here when she should stay in her place ,

(Both eyebrows raised so high they have disappeared into my grey roots...and likely to be glued there...)

Y'know, I haven't been told to 'stay in my place' since I was in the first grade and kept trying to push Michael Reed out of his chair. I liked him, you see, and he was ignoring me.

Worked, too.

[Prince]

Scripture defines Israel as the servant, the witness of the Lord. It also describes the servant of the Lord. So no, the Jewish people are not Israel.

It is written;

"You are my witnesses Israel, my servants whom I have chosen."

"Here is my servant whom I uphold, my chosen one with whom I am pleased,upon whom I have put my spirit, he will proclaim justice to the nations."