Is homosexuality worse than heterosexual infidelity?

[Moses Yoder]

I don't normally copy and paste an article but this is great stuff. At the end I have a question.

The morning after Chick-fil-A day
AUGUST 2, 2012 BY MIKE PATZ 1 COMMENT

Its the morning after the Chick-fil-A drama and Im still chewing.

I remember the day I was sitting next to an incredibly nice gay guy, enjoying a really good conversation when he dropped the ultimate conversation-killer.

What do you do for a living?

I hate that question. I hate that question because people cant help but size you up when they hear the answer. I hate that question because were already prone to think of ourselves as human doings instead of human beings. I hate that question because of what it does to people when they find out what I do.

Ive often tried to find ways around the question. Ive told people I work with non-profit organizations (this is true). Ive told people that I write (this is true). Ive even told people that I am a spiritual guru that assists people in opening their third eye (I really like this one). For whatever reason, on that day, I just cut to the chase. I work as a pastor of a church.

Everything changed. His next words went something like this:

Listen, Im gay and Im content with who I am. Im sure you are going to say that I was not born this way, and I wont argue the point. For a significant part of my childhood I was violated by a neighbor and then an uncle. Did that play a role in my sexual orientation? Possibly. I also know many people that had a trouble-free childhood and they turned out very happily gay. Regardless of how it occurred, this is who I am now and I make no apologies for the man I have become. If God has a problem with a man who tries to be true to himself, then I have a problem with a God that allows these kinds of things to happen to kids like me in the first place.

I kept thinking how much easier it would have been if I said I was a writer.


Fortunately, Jesus has a way of showing up in the middle of conversations just like these, and on that day He did not disappoint. My friend shared his heart, and I shared mine. Ive never seen people change via argument, which is why I prefer to help people taste and see that the Lord is good.

This is where Christians tend to blow it.

They taste really bad. They serve up some really Biblical truth in some really nauseating ways. They major on minors and minor on majors. They tend to be extremely unaware of their pride, and pride is like bad breath " everybody knows you have it, except for you. Its always easy to scream the loudest about sins you do not personally struggle with.

So why are we yelling?

Im still not sure why Christians are so militant in their opposition of homosexual immorality while they seem to go so mild with their opposition of heterosexual immorality. I hear the concern about homosexuality and the catch phrase is often family values: Imagine how much it will mess up a child who is being raised by two women, the reasoning goes. A kid needs both a father and a mother, we say. Yet the gays I speak with often wonder how the church can talk about family values when 50-60% of Christian couples divorce. Talk about family values. So a community of people that do not stay married is trying to talk to us about marital morality. How ironic.

In light of the fact that Christians have just as much pre-marital sex and watch just as much porn and divorce just as frequently why arent we more embarrassed to speak out on the issue of homosexual sin? Good question.

One guy said, Its funny how you can claim the grace of God to cover heterosexual sin while saying that homosexual sin is beyond the reach of Gods grace.

That brings me to all the Chick"fil-A drama.

I get why Chick-fil-A day looked so annoying to so many people yesterday. I understand why people have planned a kiss-in this Friday. And I can see why people shake their heads when they read yet another homophobic Facebook post.

Church people ask, why wont our culture repent? My answer: because repentance is a learned behavior. Someone has to model it. I tell parents that its silly to expect a child to repent when they have never seen a parent repent. And its futile to wait for a culture to repent when a culture has never seen the Church repent.

Is the real problem with our culture the unrepentant gay community? No. Its an unrepentant Church.

I am so sorry today for all the hatred that Christians have dished out toward gays. I am so sorry for all of the homophobic sarcasm that has come from the pulpits of Christian ministers. I am so sorry for the way we pick and choose which sins to condemn. I am so sorry that we have claimed to follow Jesus while we neglected widows and orphans, and then engaged in gossip and gluttony. I am so sorry that we have provided such a bad example for the rest of society to follow. Im embarrassed, Im ashamed, and I repent. Im serious. I repent.

Yet Im also concerned that when our culture most needs to hear truth, Christians dont know how to tell it.

Weve come to a dangerous moment in culture, and Christians are ill-equipped to handle it. We have reached the point where disagreement is now seen as hatred. I read an article today where a woman was appealing to Christians to recognize their hateful crimes against the homosexual community. I nodded in agreement, but decided to keep reading to see how she itemized these crimes. Paragraph after paragraph described the hurt and rejection resulting from these offenses, but it took a while to get to the actual crime: Christians claim that homosexuality is a sin. I was stunned. Disagreement was equated with hate.

Christians have a substantial challenge on their hands because every generation and every culture is going to disagree with Gods truth at some point. How interesting that our USAmerican culture considers Christianity to be closed-minded on the issue of sexual morality, while the majority of world religions are in agreement in opposition to the USA position on sexuality. Is USA culture not closed-minded for claiming that all these other religions are wrong? Is it not hypocrisy to say that we will be tolerant with everybody " except the people we consider intolerant. Closed-mindedness is not just a religious thing, its a human thing.

If ever Christians needed some good breath, it is now.

Because we have to kiss this world with the truth of God.

The problem is, no matter how good your kiss, your breath can ruin the whole experience. And no matter how much truth we bring, if it does not drip with grace and humility, it always falls flat.

Im not asking Christians to stop telling the truth, Im asking them to brush their teeth.

What does that look like? The apostle Paul said to speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy towards all people. (Titus 3:2)

Can you imagine what would happen if an entire chunk of Christians decided to embrace the Titus 3:2 approach? Will people be staging protests and kiss-ins to protest Chick-fil-A? Maybe. But the way of Jesus is to speak evil of no one. Has Chick-fil-A been bullied? Yes. But the kingdom of Jesus response is to avoid quarreling. Is there more drama to come as our culture becomes increasingly polarized? Of course. But if God is our Father, then we have to start showing the family resemblance, being gentle and showing perfect courtesy. This should have an effect on the way we post our thoughts on Facebook. Or talk to angry people at work. Or wait in line at Chick-fil-A.

You see, we cant shrink back on truth-telling or we dishonor the very Gospel. But when we bring the truth of Jesus we have to do it in the Spirit of Jesus.

Or stop being surprised when our culture doesnt want a kiss.

Is homosexuality worse than heterosexual infidelity? If not, why do Christians hate gay people so much? If the two are equally bad, why do so many Christians who would never be gay cheat on their wife?

[Clownboat]

As a Christian, I do NOT believe that sin is a "tongue-in-cheek" matter. Jesus died a horrible cruel death on the cross, so that mankind's sins might be forgiven, and you think sin is no big deal?? Wow.

You think it's OK to sacrifice a human to appease a god? Wow.

I have lived a good life even by Christian standards. I will not and do not want anyone committing human sacrifice so I can be forgiven for cheating on my homework when I was in school.

Human sacrifice to appease a god is just barbaric IMO. I would imagine you would agree with me, except for in this one scenario when you seem to be happy about it.


I would encourage you to be accountable for your actions, please don't sacrifice any humans to any deities to try to appease them, even if you really and truly believe this deity wants you to.

[noshameinChrist]

Please note, the last words Jesus said to the woman caught in adultery was "GO AND SIN NO MORE" (John 8:11).

I just love it when Christians feel the need to add that little extra bit as if it applies to everyone else but themselves. Jesus knew that the woman would undoubtedly sin again - even if not that paticualar sin - by virtue of her being human. Reread the text and this time imagine Jesus quoting, "Go and sin no more" and adding a wink afterward. I'm quite sure that it was said tongue-in-cheek since He had just sent the Pharisees scurrying away with their list of normally covert but recently exposed (by Jesus) sins. This was not a command given by Jesus as it would be impossible to fulfill. If it was then we're ALL in big trouble! You WILL notice that Jesus did not say, "Go and sin no more ...OR ELSE!"

As a Christian, I do NOT believe that sin is a "tongue-in-cheek" matter.

But Jesus doesn't refer to the adultrous woman as a sinner. Jesus asks of her "Where are your accusers? Has no man condemned you?" Since her accusers have by now hightailed it out of there, she says, "No man, Lord." Jesus said, "Neither do I condemn you: go and sin no more." Do you really not see Jesus' tongue-in-cheek interaction with the woman?

No. I think Jesus plain and simply showed her mercy. I've already agreed with you regarding the point Jesus was making to the hypocrites preparing to stone the woman.

Jesus died a horrible cruel death on the cross, so that mankind's sins might be forgiven, and you think sin is no big deal?? Wow.

That story isn't about me. What the woman had allegedly done was quite clearly no big deal to Jesus, now was it?

Of course it was a big deal. Sin IS a big deal. Jesus showed mercy. see previous comment.

You are right, Jesus did forgive and show mercy in that instance. But, he did not condone her reported sexual immorality.

As said previously, He probably didn't. But we are not told this in that scripture. You're reading something into it that is simply not there.

Homosexual sex is sinful, just as adultery and fornication are.

And yet, Jesus did not condemn this woman for allegedly practicing adultery and fornication. Why? This was not just a sin but a sin that required the penalty of death. Just replace 'adulterous woman' with 'homosexual' and the story would probably remain the same. Did Jesus refuse to condemn 'just this once'? Again, we are not told that it was only a 'one off', only that Jesus turned a blind eye at least on this one occasion. Again, why if it is such a sin?

When Jesus came to earth it was not to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved (John 3:17). Mankind has the chance for eternal life through Jesus (John 3:16). Unfortunatley, many people take Jesus's expressions of love as a license to sin. This is wrong. Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection supplies mankind with a chance to be saved. However, the choice to accept it is individual. I agree with you there. It requires individual repentance (Luke 13:3).

The fact that they occur between consenting adults does not remove this fact.

What, precisely, is the sin of intimacy between two adults?

Sin is the refusal to abide by God's teachings. I personally may see nothing wrong (speaking as a heterosexual) with having sexual "intimacy" with all the beautiful women who would allow me to do so, but as a married man I know this would be wrong based on the teachings of God. As a Christian I am committed to striving to live the way God would have me to live. Does this mean I don't sin? No. As you've correctly stated, "I'm human". But, what it means is that I don't simply wallow in sin by deciding "this is an urge that I have, so I'm gonna just fulfill it". I am not a simple beast, but a man made in the image of God. I can make choices.

I believe sinning (engaging in activities in opposition to God) is dangerous.

How is it dangerous? We all do numerous things on a daily basis that would be in opposition to God. We're human beings, for crying out loud. This is the rather typical fear mongering that surrounds much of Christianity. Why do you do this?

See above comment. I have no desire to scare anyone. But, I do sincerely believe eternity is at stake. I believe this is why Jesus came to earth, and died on the cross. This is my belief. I don't want to scare anyone, but I also don't want people to think that choosing to sin is a wise choice. It is not.

You obviously disagree, as your 'tongue-in-cheek' remark suggests. Your choice.

Again, the adultrous woman story is not about me.

ok.

This was never the teaching of Christ. Hence, he said "I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance" (Matthew 9:13). To "repent" means to change your life to conform to the ways of Christ.

But it's not your task to moralize to others. Repentance is for you, a personal thing. What other people choose to do or not to do is not your concern.

On the contrary, my friend. If I showed no concern for people, then I would truly not be a Christian. Again, Christ came to earth to "save" people. I am expected, in fact commanded, to carry the same message offering salvation through Christ. This truly is fundamental. So, I strongly disagree with you. It is, and should be, of "concern" to me and other Christians.

What does a homosexual need to repent of ...their innate sexuality?

Sin. The same as an adulterer, fornicator, thief, murderer, etc.

Again. Not your concern. You are responsible for only you.

See previous comment.

[Allahakbar]

Isn't it funny that some of the stupidest people in the universe agree with each other?: Or is that just me?

[Clownboat]

[Replying to post 132 by noshameinChrist]

According to you, homosexuals need to seek forgiveness for the way god created them, because Jesus never ever condemned them and you are a follower of Jesus. Is this the position you are championing?

My friend, I am a follower of Christ. He is the champion of salvation, which is offered to all mankind. Scripture teaches that the Lord does not wish for anyone to perish (2 Peter 3:9). This is what I try to advance.

Those who engage in homosexual sex need to seek forgiveness for that sin just as someone who might commit fornication or adultery (or in fact any other sin).

I do not believe "God created" people to be homosexual. I believe it is their choice to engage in that conduct. By the same token, I don't believe God created people to engage in fornication or adultery. People make the choice to engage in those acts as well.

Note -- I am not talking about a person's "feelings". I cannot control what a person might be attracted to. I am a married man, but not withstanding this fact I still feel attraction for females other than my wife. However, I have been able to avoid putting myself in a position where I might commit adultery. I don't just simply say, "well, I have an attraction for that female, so I am going to go ahead and have sex with her." To do so would be sin, because adultery is against God (no matter what I might feel). The same applies to homosexual sex. This sin cannot be made OK by "marriage". Homosexual sex is still a sin (no matter what society determines).

You sure are lucky not to have homosexual feelings.

Could you imagine not being able to have sex with your wife because some group of people tell you that you are committing "sin" by doing so?

Lucky for you!
Not so much for people that have a same sex attraction. They get to live their life knowing you can enjoy sex, but they must not ever participate in said act.

Oh.. I almost forgot. God is just!

[noshameinChrist]

As a Christian, I do NOT believe that sin is a "tongue-in-cheek" matter. Jesus died a horrible cruel death on the cross, so that mankind's sins might be forgiven, and you think sin is no big deal?? Wow.

You think it's OK to sacrifice a human to appease a god? Wow.

I have lived a good life even by Christian standards. I will not and do not want anyone committing human sacrifice so I can be forgiven for cheating on my homework when I was in school.

Human sacrifice to appease a god is just barbaric IMO. I would imagine you would agree with me, except for in this one scenario when you seem to be happy about it.


I would encourage you to be accountable for your actions, please don't sacrifice any humans to any deities to try to appease them, even if you really and truly believe this deity wants you to.

Jesus gave himself as a sacrifice, he didn't have to (John 10:18; Matthew 26:53-54). It is not my job to question the God who created me.

Incidentally, you can live as "good" of a life as you want, but God requires submission to Christ (read Acts 10 - the story about Cornelius).

[noshameinChrist]

[Replying to post 132 by noshameinChrist]

According to you, homosexuals need to seek forgiveness for the way god created them, because Jesus never ever condemned them and you are a follower of Jesus. Is this the position you are championing?

My friend, I am a follower of Christ. He is the champion of salvation, which is offered to all mankind. Scripture teaches that the Lord does not wish for anyone to perish (2 Peter 3:9). This is what I try to advance.

Those who engage in homosexual sex need to seek forgiveness for that sin just as someone who might commit fornication or adultery (or in fact any other sin).

I do not believe "God created" people to be homosexual. I believe it is their choice to engage in that conduct. By the same token, I don't believe God created people to engage in fornication or adultery. People make the choice to engage in those acts as well.

Note -- I am not talking about a person's "feelings". I cannot control what a person might be attracted to. I am a married man, but not withstanding this fact I still feel attraction for females other than my wife. However, I have been able to avoid putting myself in a position where I might commit adultery. I don't just simply say, "well, I have an attraction for that female, so I am going to go ahead and have sex with her." To do so would be sin, because adultery is against God (no matter what I might feel). The same applies to homosexual sex. This sin cannot be made OK by "marriage". Homosexual sex is still a sin (no matter what society determines).

You sure are lucky not to have homosexual feelings.

Could you imagine not being able to have sex with your wife because some group of people tell you that you are committing "sin" by doing so?

Lucky for you!
Not so much for people that have a same sex attraction. They get to live their life knowing you can enjoy sex, but they must not ever participate in said act.

Oh.. I almost forgot. God is just!

Yes, I can imagine not being able to fulfill my fleshly desires. There are a whole lot of women in the world that I find attractive. But, I have a wife so I am prohibited from engaging as I might otherwise. Guess what, even if my wife could not address my sexual desires (for whatever reason) I STILL would not have a license to go outside the marriage and engage in sexual contact with other women. So, yes, I can imagine it.

God is absolutely just!

[Allahakbar]

As a Christian, I do NOT believe that sin is a "tongue-in-cheek" matter. Jesus died a horrible cruel death on the cross, so that mankind's sins might be forgiven, and you think sin is no big deal?? Wow.

You think it's OK to sacrifice a human to appease a god? Wow.

I have lived a good life even by Christian standards. I will not and do not want anyone committing human sacrifice so I can be forgiven for cheating on my homework when I was in school.

Human sacrifice to appease a god is just barbaric IMO. I would imagine you would agree with me, except for in this one scenario when you seem to be happy about it.


I would encourage you to be accountable for your actions, please don't sacrifice any humans to any deities to try to appease them, even if you really and truly believe this deity wants you to.

Jesus gave himself as a sacrifice, he didn't have to (John 10:18; Matthew 26:53-54). It is not my job to question the God who created me.

Incidentally, you can live as "good" of a life as you want, but God requires submission to Christ (read Acts 10 - the story about Cornelius).

not my will but yours be done

[noshameinChrist]

As a Christian, I do NOT believe that sin is a "tongue-in-cheek" matter. Jesus died a horrible cruel death on the cross, so that mankind's sins might be forgiven, and you think sin is no big deal?? Wow.

You think it's OK to sacrifice a human to appease a god? Wow.

I have lived a good life even by Christian standards. I will not and do not want anyone committing human sacrifice so I can be forgiven for cheating on my homework when I was in school.

Human sacrifice to appease a god is just barbaric IMO. I would imagine you would agree with me, except for in this one scenario when you seem to be happy about it.


I would encourage you to be accountable for your actions, please don't sacrifice any humans to any deities to try to appease them, even if you really and truly believe this deity wants you to.

Jesus gave himself as a sacrifice, he didn't have to (John 10:18; Matthew 26:53-54). It is not my job to question the God who created me.

Incidentally, you can live as "good" of a life as you want, but God requires submission to Christ (read Acts 10 - the story about Cornelius).

not my will but yours be done

Very good. You're right, that is the example I have from Jesus (Luke 22:42)

[Clownboat]

[Replying to post 142 by noshameinChrist]

nsic you can't bring yourself to confront your hatred? Or have you watched the video and closed your eyes and ears and sang lalalalalala?

My friend, I am not defined by a video. I didn't watch it. I am defined by God, and I am striving to live as He would have me to. Thus, I strive to "do unto others as I would have them do unto me".

Please watch the video. I promise, you will not get the gay from it.
Depending on your level of empathy, you may cry a little though.

[Clownboat]

As a Christian, I do NOT believe that sin is a "tongue-in-cheek" matter. Jesus died a horrible cruel death on the cross, so that mankind's sins might be forgiven, and you think sin is no big deal?? Wow.

You think it's OK to sacrifice a human to appease a god? Wow.

I have lived a good life even by Christian standards. I will not and do not want anyone committing human sacrifice so I can be forgiven for cheating on my homework when I was in school.

Human sacrifice to appease a god is just barbaric IMO. I would imagine you would agree with me, except for in this one scenario when you seem to be happy about it.


I would encourage you to be accountable for your actions, please don't sacrifice any humans to any deities to try to appease them, even if you really and truly believe this deity wants you to.

Jesus gave himself as a sacrifice, he didn't have to (John 10:18; Matthew 26:53-54). It is not my job to question the God who created me.

Incidentally, you can live as "good" of a life as you want, but God requires submission to Christ (read Acts 10 - the story about Cornelius).

Like I said, human sacrifice was done. A human was killed to appease a god.
You celebrate this and somehow it is better than all other forms of human sacrifices to god concepts out there.

I don't want anyone to die for my actions. What is so evil about that, that would cause a person to deserve to burn in a lake of fire for eternity?