Evolution

[keithprosser3]

Given the nature of reproduction and of natural selection isn't evolution inescapable?
How can evolution not happen?

[Clownboat]

Given the nature of reproduction and of natural selection isn't evolution inescapable?
How can evolution not happen?

I agree! Evolution should be accepted straight in God being the Grand Architect, the Intelligent Designer. Evolution is by God's hand to humanity.

Your scenario seems possible (a god being behind it).
It is also un-needed (evolution can happen without a god behind it).

Good for you Clownboat, because God was NOT behind the Evolution Theory. The Evolution theory stands only because of its creators; Big-bang Evolutionists, and without them the theory of evolution would not exist.

How are you Clownboat? .. hey you really filled out from the last time we debated.

Can you provide evidence that a god was not behind the Theory of Evolution?
The ToE explains the information we have gathered. So how can you claim that it was invented by Big Bang evolutionists?

Can you even explain to us how the ToE does not explain what we observe? Can you do it without making me want to put on a tinfoil hat? You know, give us details instead of alluding to these Big Bang Evolutionists that I am having a hard time making a connection with while discussing evolution?

I am well.
Be well.

[arian]

How do YOU determine the difference between designed and not-designed?

Like so: You take a big box of Star Wars Legos called Death Star, pour it all out on the floor - Not designed

Take the book of instructions and meticulously follow it as it was designed by the engineers - Designed

[JohnA]

How do YOU determine the difference between designed and not-designed?

Like so: You take a big box of Star Wars Legos called Death Star, pour it all out on the floor - Not designed

Take the book of instructions and meticulously follow it as it was designed by the engineers - Designed

But you have examples of previous inductions and Lego assemblies made by humans (designers).
You do not have any other examples of universes or life being created, nor of any of its designers.
Your examples fail.

[arian]

I agree, a personal god or even gods IS silly. They have one in the garden to make the tomatoes grow bigger, one in front of the house to protect the house, some in their wallet to buy toys with, and the coolest one that tweaked the string just so to create a Big-bang which would have created the universe and eventually biological life ANYWAYS. Stuff like that happens all the time. Isn't that why we see a brand new 747 Jetliner sitting in the junk yard every time a tornado blows through there?

Who needs them gods when we have chaotic odds on our side, a trillion die with trillion sides numbered one to a trillion, and chaos throws all 666's on all the dice on the first try. This is why a Creator is not needed, because Evolution happens, things just get better and improve over time. .. Well not always, sometimes chaos needs a little help like this Agenda 21. Its a little extra chaotic boost for chaos like when she becomes unsustainable.

I can't believe you actually spent time writing this.

I know, .. if the subject wasn't evolution, I don't think I would have bothered.

Are you interested in debating, or are you just going to be silly?

Have you read any political cartoons lately? I tell you they are the silliest things ever, but reveal a lot of truth, .. don't you agree?

[arian]

How do YOU determine the difference between designed and not-designed?

Like so: You take a big box of Star Wars Legos called Death Star, pour it all out on the floor - Not designed

Take the book of instructions and meticulously follow it as it was designed by the engineers - Designed

But you have examples of previous inductions and Lego assemblies made by humans (designers).

I'm sure you have heard of 'original design', right? So if man didn't design man, and my rough guess would be that no animal designed man, and by all evidence we never seen a tornado create man, nor did anyone witness man evolving out of some primordial soup, .. so just a wild hunch here, .. biological life must have been designed Each creature after its kind, but human (since humans create) must be in the likeness of his Creator. I mean come on, .. it's not that hard to connect the dots is it? I mean just because you are stuck in a religion doesn't mean everyone else should too?

You do not have any other examples of universes Or life being created, not of any of its designers.

Your examples fail.

My mind tells me that since man creates, everything we see must have been created. I actually can visualize multiple universes in God, and I believe Heaven must be something like that, only much more advanced. More dimensions and man with more senses, .. but that's just my mind. I have listened to quantum activist and I tell you these guys have some awesome imaginations and I doubt they ever seen another universe, or been through a black hole.

You know where they fail, .. or stop at? They all get stuck within the universe. They just can't seem to understand the existence of 'nothing', so they make themselves accept silly ideas and stories like Big bang and Evolution where the universe is evolving and expanding in 'nothing'. Now how silly is that?

If even a quantum string appears into nothing, it was never nothing to begin with. It is an impossibility to have something in nothing .. right? But I KNOW that nothing exists, and I have proven it., and there is absolutely nothing in nothing.

So now where do you think the universe at its Planck Epoch, or Gravitational singularity expanded in? Remember that the pin sized universe is believed to have sat in a point in space, before it even created space?

Connect the dots my friend, and worship the Creator not the created.

[10CC]

How do YOU determine the difference between designed and not-designed?

Like so: You take a big box of Star Wars Legos called Death Star, pour it all out on the floor - Not designed

Take the book of instructions and meticulously follow it as it was designed by the engineers - Designed

So you mean like a sandy beach=not designed
A sand sculpture=designed

[JohnA]

How do YOU determine the difference between designed and not-designed?

Like so: You take a big box of Star Wars Legos called Death Star, pour it all out on the floor - Not designed

Take the book of instructions and meticulously follow it as it was designed by the engineers - Designed

But you have examples of previous inductions and Lego assemblies made by humans (designers).

I'm sure you have heard of 'original design', right? So if man didn't design man, and my rough guess would be that no animal designed man, and by all evidence we never seen a tornado create man, nor did anyone witness man evolving out of some primordial soup, .. so just a wild hunch here, .. biological life must have been designed Each creature after its kind, but human (since humans create) must be in the likeness of his Creator. I mean come on, .. it's not that hard to connect the dots is it? I mean just because you are stuck in a religion doesn't mean everyone else should too?

You do not have any other examples of universes Or life being created, not of any of its designers.

Your examples fail.

My mind tells me that since man creates, everything we see must have been created. I actually can visualize multiple universes in God, and I believe Heaven must be something like that, only much more advanced. More dimensions and man with more senses, .. but that's just my mind. I have listened to quantum activist and I tell you these guys have some awesome imaginations and I doubt they ever seen another universe, or been through a black hole.

You know where they fail, .. or stop at? They all get stuck within the universe. They just can't seem to understand the existence of 'nothing', so they make themselves accept silly ideas and stories like Big bang and Evolution where the universe is evolving and expanding in 'nothing'. Now how silly is that?

If even a quantum string appears into nothing, it was never nothing to begin with. It is an impossibility to have something in nothing .. right? But I KNOW that nothing exists, and I have proven it., and there is absolutely nothing in nothing.

So now where do you think the universe at its Planck Epoch, or Gravitational singularity expanded in? Remember that the pin sized universe is believed to have sat in a point in space, before it even created space?

Connect the dots my friend, and worship the Creator not the created.

Now you ate offering an argument from ignorance and god did it.
You do not know what our how life (or humans) were created, therefore your god did it.
There are no dits to connect. Your dogma (faith) days toy have no evidence. When you post evidence, to are merely rejecting your own faith. If you attempt to offer evidence, then toy ate merely attempting to contradict your evidence.
Please stop doing that. Accept your faith, accept you have no evidence. Stop pontificating irrational illogical dogma.

[arian]

How do YOU determine the difference between designed and not-designed?

Like so: You take a big box of Star Wars Legos called Death Star, pour it all out on the floor - Not designed

Take the book of instructions and meticulously follow it as it was designed by the engineers - Designed

So you mean like a sandy beach=not designed
A sand sculpture=designed

.. well it's a start, and to understand the Creator you have to start somewhere.

Now take that next step friend, .. someone had to create the rocks that make the sand, right?
Someone had to create the earth, then the moon, and, .. oh yea, the moon. The moon was created by a meteor that hit earth and blew a huge chunk off it into space. But before this huge rock could escape earths gravity, a bunch of smaller meteors came and kept hitting the moon to keep it from flying into the abyss of space, or be sucked in by the suns gravity.
Once it was just the perfect distance from earth, millions of other meteors came from the other side and kept tapping the moon into a perfect orbit around the earth. Millions of years of fine adjustments, .. a tap here and a tap there and wha-la, .. we had a perfectly orbiting moon just right for a night-lite, tides, and everything else the moon does to maintain life, .. you know, in case in some distant future life would evolve on earth.

Oh yea, I forgot, life would have evolved anyways because of evolution, and we can see this as evidenced in the trillions of planets around us, .. right?

Come on, let's be scientific about this.

[Sonofason]

In essence, Clownboat was stating that he doesn't know if God is necessary for evolution to take place. And neither do you. And neither do I.

You are either lying or misunderstood, I'm just not sure.
I very specifically said that a god is un-needed for evolution to happen!

In no way can stating a god is un-needed mean that I don't know if a god is necessary. All it means is that one is not needed, full stop.

A god causing it is just as likely and just as un-needed as fairy farts causing it. If you want to take that to mean that I'm not sure if fairy farts caused evolution, that is on you.

Fairy farts and a god are both un-needed for evolution to happen. Give me a reason to believe that fairy farts or a god causes it and I am all ears, because it seems that evolution will happen without either of them being involved.

If you are going to make a positive claim, it is only reasonable for me to ask for the evidence of your claim. Please provide evidence that a God is not needed for evolution to take place. Either provide the evidence or stop making the unsupported claim. This is my final offer. On the other hand, you could simply admit the truth, which is that you don't know if a god is needed for evolution to take place. That is the only honest answer one could put forth. So what's it gonna be?

[arian]

Now you are offering an argument from ignorance and god did it.
You do not know what or how life (or humans) were created, therefore your god did it.

Well a Creator is the most logical, reasonable and rational answer with, or without the Bible.

I mean can you honestly look at a firefly and watch its little but glow and not be totally amazed? That tiny bug has a very complex atomic reactor built into its but, and you gona tell me that was an accident? That it "Just happened"..? Hey, I mean we highly intellectual humans need the light more than that little bug, why didn't we evolve it? Or at least cats eyes so we can work in the dark when we have no light, .. or just turn it on when we need it?

There are no dots to connect. Your dogma (faith) days toy have no evidence.

How do you think I have so much faith, from some religious indoctrination? No my friend, it's from hard work of daily searching, knocking, debating with others, and when I didn't have anyone to debate with, I debated with myself. Then with prayer and contemplation, arguing with an invisible God till I have all the answers. Not just for my own questions, but the questions about God from others far more learned and intelligent than me. So if I can honestly and without wavering answer everyone else's questions too, that would be spiritual wisdom from God that can come from one place, .. faith.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Substance:
2 the real physical matter of which a person or thing consists and which has a tangible, solid presence: proteins compose much of the actual substance of the body.

evidence
noun
the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid

Evidence not seen would be like atoms, gravity and such, .. and for most people that's as far as they go. But for me that wasn't enough, I wanted to know God. So when someone says that "God don't exist", it is funny because in most cases (not all) it is out of ignorance. I see it as a kid running to get his dad and starts looking through his toy soldiers to find him.

When you post evidence, you are merely rejecting your own faith. If you attempt to offer evidence (correction, you meant faith right?), then you are merely attempting to contradict your evidence.
Please stop doing that.

Fait is not what you understand it to be, please read my above explanation of Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Accept your faith, accept you have no evidence. Stop pontificating irrational illogical dogma.

Again, .. how could you survive even one day without faith? I believe what you meant was; "Accept your RELIGION, accept you have no evidence" because I would agree with you a hundred percent on that.

Faith is knowing that when you're driving a car and if you turn your steering wheel to the right, your car will go right. Without at least this much faith, you could crash at the first curve in the road that you come to.

Thanks JohnA

arian