Evolution

[keithprosser3]

Given the nature of reproduction and of natural selection isn't evolution inescapable?
How can evolution not happen?

[kenblogton]

I've been slacking a bit, but when I say "Is God Prior?" I mean is the supposed causation of the big bang by God prior to the big bang?
And is there a real transition/change between no Universe and Universe?

I find it difficult to understand how you could ask if there is a real transition/change between no universe and universe. No universe means no space, time, matter of energy. As it says at http://physics.stackexchange.com/questi ... ematically, "As we know time began with the big bang. Before that there was no time, no laws, nothing."
I don't believe one can get a bigger change than between nothing and something.
kenblogton

[scourge99]

kenblogton replied: What you seem not to understand is that God is not physical and is eternal, outside of time, not in space, and consisting neither of matter nor energy.

I don't even understand what that means and i doubt you do either. I know what matter, energy, and time is but i don't know what a "timeless, matterless, energyless" thing is or if its even possible. It seems like it you are asserting the existence of something much like someone asserting the existence of a square-circle.

Furthermore, you aren't describing this entity with any positive properties. It appears to be just an idea in your head no different than a square-circle. For example, I am not a toaster and I am not a dolphin. But those descriptions tell you very little about what I actually am. A positive description of me would be that I'm a human male. Is there some way to positively describe the properties of a timeless, matterless, energyless thing?

Space, time, matter & energy all originate with the dense singularity/big bang, as you well know.

The Laws of physics as we know them break down prior to the Planck time.

And prior is a time-context term, as you have previously pointed out. As noted above, since God is outside of the physical, including time, prior is not a term that applies to God. Other term which don't apply to God are space terms, like where is God; God is Spirit, consisting neither of matter nor energy.

1) What does it even mean to be "timeless, energyless, matterless"? Can you describe this at all in POSITIVE terms? For example, a square circle is not a triangle and not an ellipse but that doesn't tell us anything at all about what a square-circle is.

2) Why can't other imaginary things like "timeless, matterless, energyless" fairies be the cause of this universe? Why is only your god the only possibility? Is it not possible that a "timeless, matterless, energyless" X created the universe and X isn't your god?

3) Assuming for the sake of argument that a "timeless, energyless, matterless," entity is even possible. How can such a thing create anything unless it is within some sort of "time" of its own. That is, creation requires some sort of time, a before and after; cause and effect. If an entity if timeless i don't see how it can create anything by definition. It would have to be "in time".



PS - a user's ability or inability to properly use the quote function is regarded as an informal IQ test around here.

[Jashwell]

I've been slacking a bit, but when I say "Is God Prior?" I mean is the supposed causation of the big bang by God prior to the big bang?
And is there a real transition/change between no Universe and Universe?

I find it difficult to understand how you could ask if there is a real transition/change between no universe and universe. No universe means no space, time, matter of energy. As it says at http://physics.stackexchange.com/questi ... ematically, "As we know time began with the big bang. Before that there was no time, no laws, nothing."
I don't believe one can get a bigger change than between nothing and something.
kenblogton

So what is there a transition across?
What is meant by "then"?

... it's certainly not time

[kenblogton]

[kenblogton]

I've been slacking a bit, but when I say "Is God Prior?" I mean is the supposed causation of the big bang by God prior to the big bang?
And is there a real transition/change between no Universe and Universe?

I find it difficult to understand how you could ask if there is a real transition/change between no universe and universe. No universe means no space, time, matter of energy. As it says at http://physics.stackexchange.com/questi ... ematically, "As we know time began with the big bang. Before that there was no time, no laws, nothing."
I don't believe one can get a bigger change than between nothing and something.
kenblogton

So what is there a transition across?
What is meant by "then"?

... it's certainly not time

The transition is not a gradual evolution but an abrupt shift from nothing to the physical something.
I'm not clear on the meaning of your question "What is meant by "then"?"
kenblogton

[Jashwell]

[Replying to post 1278 by kenblogton]


Any kind of transition or shift - as abrupt as you want it - necessitates the existence of a dimension in which they are separate.

You can't refer to a temporal 'jump' to describe how time itself is separate from something.
You have to speculatively invent an 'ontological dimension'.

[Zzyzx]

.
Moderator Intervention

"Something from nothing" and "How life began" and "How the universe originated" are different topics from evolution -- though interesting topics in themselves. Let's discuss such things in separate threads.
Rules
C&A Guidelines

______________

Moderator Interventions do not count as a strike against any posters. They serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received and/or are given at the discretion of a moderator when he or she feels a clarification of the rules is required.

[kenblogton]

[Replying to post 1278 by kenblogton]


1. Any kind of transition or shift - as abrupt as you want it - necessitates the existence of a dimension in which they are separate.

2. You can't refer to a temporal 'jump' to describe how time itself is separate from something.
You have to speculatively invent an 'ontological dimension'.

Reply to 1. The physical and spiritual are not separated by dimensions; that is an unnecessary restriction which you are imposing.

Reply to 2. If time begins at the big bang, there is no temporal jump, and you don't speculatively need to invent anything.
kenblogton

[kenblogton]

[Jashwell]