Is Jehovah's Witness Christain

Exploring the details of Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
Donray
Guru
Posts: 1195
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:25 pm
Location: CA
Been thanked: 3 times

Is Jehovah's Witness Christain

Post #1

Post by Donray »

The Jehovah's Witnesses consider themselves to be Christians because they believe they are serving the true and living God. Like many cults, they think they are the only true church on earth. Yet, they deny the Trinity, the deity of Christ, the personhood of the Holy Spirit, Jesus' physical resurrection, and salvation by grace through faith
.
Typical with cults that use the Bible to support its position is a host of interpretive errors:
Taking verses out of their immediate context.
Refusing to read verses in the entire Biblical context.
Inserting their theological presuppositions into the text.
Altering the Biblical text to suit their needs.
Latching onto one verse to interpret a host of others.
Changing the meanings of words.
Proclaiming some passages to be figurative when they contradict their doctrines.
Adding to the Word of God.
I thought that any Christina church needed to believe in the Trinity otherwise they are not Christian.

For debate are the Jehovah Witness Christian?

User avatar
tam
Savant
Posts: 6881
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:59 pm
Has thanked: 386 times
Been thanked: 356 times
Contact:

Post #51

Post by tam »

Man's definition of Christian is more along the lines of the definition of a disciple: a follower of Christ. But one may be a disciple without (yet) being a Christian.

A Christian is one who is anointed with holy spirit. That anointing makes a person one with Christ; and although we may choose to be a disciple of Christ; He is the one who chooses to anoint us with holy spirit.


That anointing - given to us by Christ - is what makes one a Christian.




Calling oneself a Christian does not make it so. Many say "Lord, Lord" but reveal otherwise by their works. Joining a religion/sect/denomination does not make one a Christian. Believing the majority on doctrinal matters, etc, does not make one a Christian.


One is a Christian if one is anointed with holy spirit. Then one has been divinely called and anointed.


**

If one loves Christ, then one will obey Him... then His Father will love that one, and they (Christ and God) will come and make their home with(in) that one.


Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

User avatar
ttruscott
Site Supporter
Posts: 11064
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:09 pm
Location: West Coast of Canada
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Is Jehovah's Witness Christain

Post #52

Post by ttruscott »

Elijah John wrote:
Nowhere does the Bible suggest that one needs to believe that Jesus is "God" in order to be a Christian.

Seems only reasonable that one believe in the treachings of Jesus though, to be a Christian.
When false Christs and prophets are in the mix, twisting His teachings to their ends, does it not behoove us to seek Him to find what He meant and not try to find the truth by our own understanding of the bible or someone else's understanding?
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

Donray
Guru
Posts: 1195
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:25 pm
Location: CA
Been thanked: 3 times

Post #53

Post by Donray »

[Replying to post 51 by tam]

So, are JWs Christians? They believe in two deities God and Jesus.

I guess you disagree with what other Christians have said that anyone just needs to follow Jesus teaching to be Christians. No need to be baptized or go to church, etc.

Do you have any idea what is required to be a Christian? Could you give use a list of what is required?

Donray
Guru
Posts: 1195
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:25 pm
Location: CA
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Is Jehovah's Witness Christain

Post #54

Post by Donray »

ttruscott wrote:
Elijah John wrote:
Nowhere does the Bible suggest that one needs to believe that Jesus is "God" in order to be a Christian.

Seems only reasonable that one believe in the treachings of Jesus though, to be a Christian.
When false Christs and prophets are in the mix, twisting His teachings to their ends, does it not behoove us to seek Him to find what He meant and not try to find the truth by our own understanding of the bible or someone else's understanding?
I don't understand your position. From what you are implying JWs are not Christians.

Can I ask you what defines a Christian.

User avatar
onewithhim
Savant
Posts: 11114
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
Location: Norwich, CT
Has thanked: 1581 times
Been thanked: 471 times

Re: Is Jehovah's Witness Christain

Post #55

Post by onewithhim »

Donray wrote: [Replying to post 40 by JehovahsWitness]

Why do I need to show the word trinity? I don't believe in the trinity, God or Jesus.

I am trying to figure out what you and the JWs believe. I said you believe in two deities. Is that correct? I also said that the majority 99% of Christians believe in the trinity and one god not two like you do.

Therefore either 99% of the so called Christians are incorrect and the JWSs are the only true Christians or the JWS are not Christians.

So which is it?
Wait a minute. You say we believe in two Gods? How do you get that idea? We have stated over and over that there is ONE true God, above all others, and that is Jehovah---the Father. Jesus himself said that He, Jehovah, is "the only true God" (John 17:3) and he called Him "MY GOD." (John 20:17)

It is the 99% of so-called Christians that believe in THREE GODS. Count them:

Father = God

Son = God

Holy Spirit = God


It is the 99% of "Christianity" that worships multiple Gods.


:study:

User avatar
onewithhim
Savant
Posts: 11114
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
Location: Norwich, CT
Has thanked: 1581 times
Been thanked: 471 times

Re: Is Jehovah's Witness Christain

Post #56

Post by onewithhim »

tigger2 wrote: [Replying to post 43 by Donray]

JW's, as I'm sure you already know, believe that only one person is God. That person is the Father alone and is named YHWH nearly 7000 times in the Hebrew scriptures of the OT.

Historically that name has been transliterated into English as Jehovah. It is found in the KJV at Psalm 83:18 where it states "that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth." It is found throughout the OT in the ASV.

JWs believe that Jesus was sent by the Father (Jehovah) to be savior and king of mankind. He is not God, but he is the second most important person in existence.
Excellent post, and right to the point.

Even after returning to heaven Jesus called the Father "MY GOD." (Revelation 3:12)


:study:

User avatar
onewithhim
Savant
Posts: 11114
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
Location: Norwich, CT
Has thanked: 1581 times
Been thanked: 471 times

Re: Is Jehovah's Witness Christain

Post #57

Post by onewithhim »

Donray wrote:
Checkpoint wrote:
The truth about any issue, including the trinity doctrine, is not settled by what the majority view is, and likewise whether or not someone is a Christian.

It is not all or nothing. It is neither "all are Christian" nor "only we are Christian".
Tell me if there is there any one doctrine that defines a Christian. According to you are Christian if you believe that there was a God of the OT and a new god (Jesus) of the NT. So one can believe in two gods and still be Christian.

I guess one can believe in many gods and still be a Christian.

One does need to ware magic underwear to be a Christian.

One can not attend any church and be a Christian?

One can believe that Jesus is only a man like Muslims and be a Christian.

From what Christians have replied here one just needs to think I am a Christian and they are a Christian. Don't need to believe that anything in the bible is true.

Do I have this correct????????
A "new God, Jesus"? No---Jesus is not a "new God." He is the SON of God, the God of the Old and New Testaments, Jehovah. This is what the Bible actually tells us.


:study:

User avatar
onewithhim
Savant
Posts: 11114
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
Location: Norwich, CT
Has thanked: 1581 times
Been thanked: 471 times

Re: Is Jehovah's Witness Christain

Post #58

Post by onewithhim »

onewithhim wrote:
Donray wrote:
The Jehovah's Witnesses consider themselves to be Christians because they believe they are serving the true and living God. Like many cults, they think they are the only true church on earth. Yet, they deny the Trinity, the deity of Christ, the personhood of the Holy Spirit, Jesus' physical resurrection, and salvation by grace through faith
.
Typical with cults that use the Bible to support its position is a host of interpretive errors:
Taking verses out of their immediate context.
Refusing to read verses in the entire Biblical context.
Inserting their theological presuppositions into the text.
Altering the Biblical text to suit their needs.
Latching onto one verse to interpret a host of others.
Changing the meanings of words.
Proclaiming some passages to be figurative when they contradict their doctrines.
Adding to the Word of God.
I thought that any Christina church needed to believe in the Trinity otherwise they are not Christian.

For debate are the Jehovah Witness Christian?
Yes, we do deny everything you listed in your first paragraph, except salvation by grace through faith. We believe that, 100%. We are very definitely Christian, and there is nowhere in the Bible that says a person has to believe that Jesus is God to be saved. In fact, there is no place that says Jesus is God Almighty .

As for your list of what cults do....(1) JWs do not "take verses out of immediate context." That is, actually, what most other religions do. We encourage everyone to read the verses before and after a verse. Can you give an example of JWs taking a verse out of context?

(2) When did a JW "refuse" to read a verse in the entire Biblical context? Example?

(3) Tell me, who DOESN'T insert their theological presuppositions into a text on occasion? Do you want me to list the times other self-proclaimed Christians have blatantly inserted their bias into a text? It happens all the time on these forums.

(4) How have JWs "altered the Biblical text to suit their needs"? That is just not true. We go back to the original Hebrew and Greek and translate as close to the original as possible. One scholar has said that the New World Translation is the best translation available. His name is Jason BeDuhn and he wrote Truth in Translation, an excellent commentary; and he is not affiliated with JWs.

(5) Can you give an example of how JWs "latch onto one verse to interpret a host of others" please?

(6) An example of JWs changing the meaning of words?

(7) What are their reasons for claiming a passage is figurative? Have you thoughtfully considered whether or not their reasoning makes sense, and if not, why do you disagree?

(8) How have JWs "added to the Word of God"?


You make some pretty dire accusations, and I think you need to back up those accusations with examples.


:study:
Donray...you haven't answered my questions there in post #5. Why? You made some important accusations against JWs and yet you haven't clarified what you are accusing us for. When you accuse, you really must allow the defendant to be able to defend themselves. Clearly delineate your accusations.



:study:

User avatar
Black Sheep
Banned
Banned
Posts: 195
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:14 am
Location: Northern NH
Contact:

Re: Is Jehovah's Witness Christain

Post #59

Post by Black Sheep »

[Replying to post 58 by onewithhim]

I've always had a great deal of respect for JW'S. One stopped by my house today. I have little respect for Protestants, esp. Fundamentalist Baptist.

Donray
Guru
Posts: 1195
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:25 pm
Location: CA
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Is Jehovah's Witness Christain

Post #60

Post by Donray »

onewithhim wrote:A "new God, Jesus"? No---Jesus is not a "new God." He is the SON of God, the God of the Old and New Testaments, Jehovah. This is what the Bible actually tells us.
You do realize that you are saying you believe in two deities. You believe in God as one deity and you believe that Jesus is the son of God a second deity. You do realize that the offspring of a God and human is a demigod and a demigod is a deity.

Post Reply