mms20102 wrote:
[
Replying to Tired of the Nonsense]
If iam going to debate Christians then I must use their source of knowledge and make it as evidence for us muslims the bible is not purely holybook but it contains remaining of the original text
If you are atheist or any thing but Christian you can find all my speech is useless simply we are not debating historical facts rather than religious matters and from historic fact I gave some about how they used the cross in romans time
You are debating what you declare to be true according to your faith, and according to your lifetime of programming. Just as any believer of any belief declares that, of course their belief is all true. Yes, I am an atheist, and I am debating based on what the evidence will sustain.
For example, according to Muslim belief, and this is referred to in the Qur'an, the prophet one night in 621 rode a flying steed named Al Baraq up to heaven, where he visited with the other prophets, including Jesus, the angels, and then had a face to face meeting with God Himself. This story is entirely unrealistic of course, but Muslims declare it to be entirely true according to their beliefs and declarations of the truth of their beliefs. As a Christian you declare that Jesus not only came back to life, but that he subsequently bodily flew off up to heaven. This story is entirely unrealistic of course, but Christians declare that it is entirely true according to Christian beliefs and declarations of the truth of their beliefs.
And I am suggesting that
both stories are exactly the nonsense that they appear to be.
The point I was making earlier is that such stories are declarations of religious faith, and NOT EVIDENCE that they are true. Unless you can produce some evidence that your claims and the claims of other Christians are of course true, then your declaration that the corpse of Jesus came back to life and subsequent flew off up to heaven has no more actual potential for being true then the Muslim story of Muhammad riding a flying steed up to heaven and visiting God does. No one is questioning your right to believe whatever pleases you. But your claims essentially represent the very definition of nonsense, and you have no real foundation for convincing others that it is true, except your firm assurances and personal heartfelt conviction that it is all true.
Firm assurances and personal conviction cannot make the story of a corpse coming back to life and flying away in any way plausible. Just as they cannot make the story of riding an animal up to heaven and visiting God can. And no amount of firm assurances and personal heartfelt conviction can serve to make such unrealistic claims obviously and undeniably true.
And yet, if you consider that the very idea that Christianity might be nothing based on nothing more than lies and rumors too inconceivable to be true, try to imagine how the Muslims feel about such an unthinkable possibility in their own belief system. And yet for their beliefs, their declarations of undeniable truth, to be valid, yours have to be false. Or vice versa. Or course there is the very real possibility that the reason that the claims of both religions appear to be utter nonsense, is because they are utter nonsense.
I should also point out that this is the "Christianity and Apologetics" sub forum where Christians and atheists debate whether or not Christian claims have any actual potential for being true. If you want to discuss your beliefs with other Christians, I would suggest the "Holy Huddle Room" sub forum. Non believers are not allowed to post in that sub forum. You will be entirely safe from our atheistic tyranny there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buraq
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this." -- Albert Einstein -- Written in 1954 to Jewish philosopher Erik Gutkind.
